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Systemd 241 Paired With Linux 4.19+ To Enable New Regular File & FIFO Protection

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  • #41
    Originally posted by malkavian View Post
    At Devuan you can choose Sysvinit or OpenRC.
    Both are provided and maintained by Debian project. https://packages.debian.org/stretch/openrc

    My Debian systems try to force me to install Systemd,
    As I said that's just a default, Devuan's work is basically respinning an ISO with different default package selection during installation.

    They started with much loftier goals than that, but they didn't make it, so that's all they are now.

    Poettering said that they have no time to resolve bugs and packagers should patch and use stabilized versions.
    That's not what he said. And yes I know this is the mail you read wrong (or someone translated wrong to you) https://lists.freedesktop.org/archiv...ry/041959.html

    He said that distros should NOT expect latest upstream releases to be 100% amazing and bug-free on release day.
    He said that fixing bugs takes time and effort so you can't expect to get a dev to write fixes around the clock to save your downstream users from breakage in a new release.
    He said that so you should NOT use latest upstream releases as-is without doing some QA (testing and quality control) and making sure they are stable first. Which is what Fedora/RHEL (the employers of core systemd developers) do with their own distro.

    And more info in this spanish blog:
    This is the actual github issue it is talking about, so we can look at the whole story.
    https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/11436
    we can see that Pottering himself shows up, summons other members, discusses the issue as a civil being, and then they eventually take the right choice for the future and then closes the bug report with a commit that reverts the commit causing the issue reported.

    3 full days after the bug was reported. Omg why it took so long, think of the children.

    Be happy with Systemd, and let me be happy with OpenRC.
    The issue here is people posting bullshit to give some bigger justification to their otherwise unimportant choice.

    As I said I have nothing against OpenRC (I recommended good and reputable distros using that), but people posting bullshit annoy me.

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by Vistaus View Post

      UNIX? I thought that was the RISC OS philosophy?
      Arthur was created years after UNIX was released.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
        Oh I know Gentoo isn't for everyone. I did give Tumbleweed an honest try, but it just really wasn't my thing.
        Yeah that's fine.
        I'm totally not using my psychic powers to bend your will and use Tumbleweed.
        I'll pretend I said that for other people reading our discussion.

        I'm the kind of weirdo that would rather use & learn Gentoo
        For an easier way into the dark side, you can go with Sabayon, which is a Gentoo binary derivative that still includes full Gentoo ability to recompile emerge and do the usual Gentoo stuff from Gentoo repos if you want to, but having also binary packages you don't have to do it for everything so it tries to be a "best of both worlds".
        Their "stable" version isn't really bleeding edge as claimed in the home page (LTS kernel and systemd 233 for example), and their bleeding edge "daily" snapshot still ships systemd 239 so it's less bleeding edge than Arch I guess.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by tildearrow View Post

          Arthur was created years after UNIX was released.
          I know that, I just thought that they came up with that philosophy, not UNIX, but apparently I was wrong.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by monraaf View Post
            "Doesn't Linux share the UNIX philosophy that "everything is a file"? Which would mean that everything belongs in some kind of filesystem tree?"

            That used to be the unix philosphy until systemd come and destroyed it all.

            At this point I no longer value Linux over Microsoft Windows because that is basically what they made out of it with pulseaudio + systemd.

            Our only salvation is Slackware and the BSDs, make sure systemd, shim and their kind never even get a foothold in BSD land EVER!
            Thats just not true!

            systemd and pulseaudio do not do anything to weaken the everything is a file metaphor. pulseaudio does allow for the use of sockets. systemd and pulseaudio are also not against the Unix philosophy but are actually consistent with it. systemd is decentralized into 40 different binaries, and is actually more modular and more flexible than the old init system.



            ALSA is what perhaps changed the idea of using a file and did not use files as much as OSS, and Video4Linux also did not follow everything is a file. Remember these came along long, long before pulseaudio. If a anything pulseaudio helped make things more modular by allowing better mixing and better multiplexing of access to the hardware. This is actually a Unix like philosophy which is to do things in a seperate process rather than to try to build everything but the kitchen sink into the kernel.

            Also remember, that actually a fifo or pipe can be inadequate for sound or video APIs where many applications need to connect at once. It is however pefectly fine to implement a userland solution in the form of a video and audio server to multiplex data from unix domain socket connections and then feed them into the Kernel API.

            So Unix Domain Sockets are a much better solution and are just a multiplexed kind of file many apps can make seperate connections to and are much more appropriate for these kinds of things.

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

              Eh, I just think SystemD is easier to read than systemd.
              the day I start having change from

              sudo apt install vlc

              to

              sudo apt install VLC

              or

              sudo apt install libVLC

              is the day I stop using the command line for application installs.

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by profoundWHALE View Post

                the day I start having change from

                sudo apt install vlc

                to

                sudo apt install VLC

                or

                sudo apt install libVLC

                is the day I stop using the command line for application installs.
                That's what Fish or Zsh with syntax highlighting is for. I use it all the time to prevent command line mistakes.

                All I'm going to say is that if you have reading issues, blocks of text can be hard to read...like man pages, forums, books... In those instances where I don't have syntax highlighting and what not, altered spellings & certain letters capitalized can make it easier to read.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                  Yeah that's fine.
                  I'm totally not using my psychic powers to bend your will and use Tumbleweed.
                  I'll pretend I said that for other people reading our discussion.

                  For an easier way into the dark side, you can go with Sabayon, which is a Gentoo binary derivative that still includes full Gentoo ability to recompile emerge and do the usual Gentoo stuff from Gentoo repos if you want to, but having also binary packages you don't have to do it for everything so it tries to be a "best of both worlds".
                  Their "stable" version isn't really bleeding edge as claimed in the home page (LTS kernel and systemd 233 for example), and their bleeding edge "daily" snapshot still ships systemd 239 so it's less bleeding edge than Arch I guess.
                  A big part of wanting to go to Gentoo is for the learning experience. Using something binary based takes some of that learning away in my experiences. I want to be forced into configuring it all, to do it all from the ground up, to learn.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by profoundWHALE View Post
                    the day I start having change from

                    sudo apt install vlc

                    to

                    sudo apt install VLC

                    or

                    sudo apt install libVLC

                    is the day I stop using the command line for application installs.
                    Make it case insensitive then.

                    I mean what is the point of capital letters being distinct if you don't want to use them, ever?

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
                      I've never taken one side or the other on the systemd arguments, but systemd breaking my system 3 times in 3 days is enough to make me join the anti-systemd crowd and really light that fire under my ass to finally install Gentoo.
                      did systemd on your system became self-aware and started downloading random crap from internet? or it was you who broken your system and blamed systemd?

                      Comment

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