Systemd 241 Paired With Linux 4.19+ To Enable New Regular File & FIFO Protection

[FireBurn]

SDDM still isn't starting for me under HyperV with systemd 240 or the latest git

[jabl]

"Everything is a file" is one of the very few aspects of UNIX which are actually intelligent.

Yes. Plan 9 took that concept a few steps further. One thing in particular was that they used namespacing much more than Unix did (although Linux and systemd are using it more and more).

But that doesn't mean that everything should be a *persistent* file.

This is partly historical. /run is a relatively recent "invention", before that /tmp was what we had.

Many types of objects are inherently transient and creating persistent, reboot-resistant names on disk for such objects that may or may not actually exist when accessed is plain stupid. They should be visible as files, but in a special purpose, non persistent directory and only as long as they are actually usable (e.g. as long as some process is actually reading from the FIFO, or listens on a socket).

Not sure why a FIFO couldn't be persistent. Sure, the contents are lost on reboot, but so? In a clean-sheet design, it might very well make sense to not allow persistent FIFO's, but, well, if Linux wants to run existing software that might not expect to recreate a FIFO every time it starts I guess this is a compromise that has to be made.

And since we are at it, why on Earth are IP sockets not represented as files too?

Or network devices, for that matter. That, BTW, was one reason why the switch to https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Sof...nterfaceNames/ was a bit painful was that it's not possible to have many names (as in e.g. symlinks) pointing to the same device. So you couldn't keep the old names for backwards compatibility. As opposed to e.g. block devices, with /dev/disk/by-*.

[malkavian]

*Alpine Linux, Artix (Arch/OpenRC), Gentoo and any other distro using or offering OpenRC.

And Devuan, which is Debian whitout systemd.

[Candy]

SystemD is now a registered religion in germany. The first churches of SystemD have opened around Frankfurt, paising the book of the holy allmighty Lennart.

First book genesis:
On the first day the allmighty Lennart created SystemD and believe it to be a good thing.
On the second day he sucked in UdevD because he was told by a snake.
On the third day he created more stuff around it than necessary because his followers wanted this.
On the fourth day a religion was born.
On the fith day the book of SystemD was written.
On the sixth day sabbatical.
On the seventh day, people pay to follow the religion.

Though there is Illuvatar, totally pissed off by the current activities swearing revenge!

[Bsdisbetter]

Doesn't Linux share the UNIX philosophy that "everything is a file"? Which would mean that everything belongs in some kind of filesystem tree?

Nope. Yes if your previous question were true which it isn't.

[Bsdisbetter]

"Doesn't Linux share the UNIX philosophy that "everything is a file"? Which would mean that everything belongs in some kind of filesystem tree?"

That used to be the unix philosphy until systemd come and destroyed it all.

At this point I no longer value Linux over Microsoft Windows because that is basically what they made out of it with pulseaudio + systemd.

Our only salvation is Slackware and the BSDs, make sure systemd, shim and their kind never even get a foothold in BSD land EVER!

Only non-linux is safe, the rest will eventually follow when it becomes harder & harder to extract this dependant nonsense from everything.

[caligula]

"Doesn't Linux share the UNIX philosophy that "everything is a file"? Which would mean that everything belongs in some kind of filesystem tree?"

That used to be the unix philosphy until systemd come and destroyed it all.

At this point I no longer value Linux over Microsoft Windows because that is basically what they made out of it with pulseaudio + systemd.

Our only salvation is Slackware and the BSDs, make sure systemd, shim and their kind never even get a foothold in BSD land EVER!

What a huge load of crap. So network interfaces used to be files on Linux before systemd? Riiiiiight..

[starshipeleven]

And Devuan, which is Debian whitout systemd.

Not using OpenRC, also too much butt hurt and too little actual work in doing what is basically a different Debian default package setup.

[arokh]

"Doesn't Linux share the UNIX philosophy that "everything is a file"? Which would mean that everything belongs in some kind of filesystem tree?"

That used to be the unix philosphy until systemd come and destroyed it all.

At this point I no longer value Linux over Microsoft Windows because that is basically what they made out of it with pulseaudio + systemd.

Our only salvation is Slackware and the BSDs, make sure systemd, shim and their kind never even get a foothold in BSD land EVER!

It's weird that systemd creates so much fury from people who clearly are incompetent regarding operating system technology. It's like if the entire world's population of Down syndrome patients suddenly started opposing NASA's new rocket technology claiming it was better in the 70's.

No disrespect to people who have Down syndrome intended, just a joke.

[pal666]

I never understood why should FIFOs (and local sockets, for that matter) be allowed anywhere in the main filesystem tree. By definition they are transient objects that cannot survive across reboots and shoud have no business living in a storage space designed for persistent objects. The only legitimate place for them IMHO is under /run

/run never existed for most of fifos existence