Systemd Is The Future Of Debian

[Delgarde]

launchd

Aside from the fact that launchd doesn't work on Linux (it's Mac-only, aside from an experimental port to BSD)?

Ironically, Wikipedia claims that "inescapable license problems" were a chief reason why Ubuntu opted to develop Upstart instead of porting launchd...

[Gusar]

it's not worse than using permissive licensed software

It is, because of the asymmetry. With permissive licensing, *everyone* can make proprietary derivatives. With GPL + CLA as in the case with Canonical, only Canonical can do so. So by signing Canonical's CLA, I'm basically their employee but without the salary, as Scott James Remnant put it.

Except that it clearly says it's not only local search and if you want to make it local there is one switch in Security & Privacy settings.

I can only repeat myself, it doesn't matter that it says the searches aren't local-only. If my stuff is being sent to third parties, it should require explicit opt-in, not opt-out. Or in other words, the setting should be the opposite of what it is now.

but actually I'm wondering why they didn't considered using it

Lennart answers that here (the FAQ at the end): http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html <- yeah it's a bit vague, but not really, Linux does have a wider scope than OSX.

[Annabel]

With permissive licensing, *everyone* can make proprietary derivatives.

and this is bad, the less proprietary software, the better. It's like saying that permissive licenses are better than gpl because in gpl only the copyright owner can make non-free versions of it

[You-]

Aside from the fact that launchd doesn't work on Linux (it's Mac-only, aside from an experimental port to BSD)?

Ironically, Wikipedia claims that "inescapable license problems" were a chief reason why Ubuntu opted to develop Upstart instead of porting launchd...

A nitpick but my understanding is that the developer who started Upstart started it as an independent project.

He was later hired by Canonical and the software was put behind a CLA.

Later when the developer stopped being employed by Canonical, he also stopped contributing to Upstart because it was behind a CLA (though he continued to maintain libnih, which is not behind a CLA).

[mazumoto]

Well, let me clue you on on something.

Whenever you go to google.com and search for something that I find particularly interesting.
Google sends me information about what you saw on that google search page, what links you clicked, and exactly what time you clicked them.
Yes, I pay google to do this and they do it.

You think just because Canonical sends some searchterms to Amazon, is such a crime. I think that's ridiculous. It's standard practice for search engines. I think this example more than anything shows people wanting to just make up whatever reasons to rationalize their irrational dislike/hate for Canonical.

No, I don't think you get that information. First, I don't use google no more. Second, I believe you won't be able to identify me as an individual with the data google provides (I'm pretty sure that'd be illegal in my country without my consent).

But more important: just because it's easy or it's the usual practice that many companies do, it doesn't become right the slightest _bit_. I don't want to live in 1984. And we're just on the straightest path to making that possible. It won't happen now and probably never exactly like anybody expects, but we're laying the groundwork for ubiquitous and uncontrolled surveillance right now. Nobody can say what will happen with that data in the future (it won't just vanish for sure).
You even unconsciously act differently if you just believe that you're watched.

So you may find it ridiculous, I think it's wrong and evil ... and even worse, few people care. That is most endangering to freedom.

[liam]

I lol'd at that :-P

Seriously ... it's an init system, not the holy grail or anything. Though I am happy that systemd won, it's not making my life sparkly-shining. Well, I use gentoo anyway. I just enjoy that Canonical got a boot in their butt for the stuff they did (sending desktop searchterms to amazon, Mir and all the other crap) and that even multiple voters with highly doubtable interest conflicts didn't manage to achieve the upper hand.

You don't get it. Systemd is a helluva lot more than just an init. It's becoming the standardized base across all distros that Linux has desperately needed. That's why it has so much buy in from the the people who write the code.

[Luke_Wolf]

No, I don't think you get that information. First, I don't use google no more. Second, I believe you won't be able to identify me as an individual with the data google provides (I'm pretty sure that'd be illegal in my country without my consent).

But more important: just because it's easy or it's the usual practice that many companies do, it doesn't become right the slightest _bit_. I don't want to live in 1984. And we're just on the straightest path to making that possible. It won't happen now and probably never exactly like anybody expects, but we're laying the groundwork for ubiquitous and uncontrolled surveillance right now. Nobody can say what will happen with that data in the future (it won't just vanish for sure).
You even unconsciously act differently if you just believe that you're watched.

So you may find it ridiculous, I think it's wrong and evil ... and even worse, few people care. That is most endangering to freedom.

Even if you don't use google they're tracking you everywhere you go unless you use a javascript blocker such as noscript to block out google analytics, and things like adsense.

[NotMine999]

I expect a GR as likely, but systemd will likely win.

About loose coupling, I don't know if that's technically feasible for all packages, having already chosen systemd.

Somehow Gentoo has figured out how to make both SystemD and OpenRC work in their distribution. I'm not sure if that directly relates to "loose coupling" or not, but it definitely proves that a range of packages can work, possibly with packager intervention, with multiple yet different "init" systems.

[Gusar]

Somehow Gentoo has figured out how to make both SystemD and OpenRC work in their distribution. I'm not sure if that directly relates to "loose coupling" or not, but it definitely proves that a range of packages can work, possibly with packager intervention, with multiple yet different "init" systems.

Gentoo definitely does not have "loose coupling". If you want Gnome on Gentoo, you need to switch to systemd and use it as PID 1. That was a decision Gentoo's Gnome maintainers, they decided to not spend time on making Gnome work with init systems other than systemd.

[liam]

That's not a fair comparison between X and wayland. It's a comparison between window managers.

To make X look worse, they're running a crappy window manager without compositing. Without, any window movement triggers a redraw of the whole window and the window behind, which is known to be slow.

They're saying how wayland has smooth window fading animations. It doesn't. The window manager they're using does.


In other words, just install a proper window manager, and X11 is fine. It may have its architectural flaws, but X11 itself is not noticeably slower than wayland.

There's more going on here than you know. That collabora Dev wrote a Weston backend that takes advantage of the RPI videocore 2d compositing hardware. That is something that is relatively easy to do with the Wayland protocol (didn't care how it's drawn as long as it's given the right kind of pixel format in the buffer). No x compositor can hope to be as efficient as a Wayland compositor b/c of copies and context switching. DRI certainly has helped but has done so by getting X out of the picture as much as possible.