Wayland Enjoyed Many Successes In 2023

[oiaohm]

Oh, really? And screen recording works in Weston, right? I know it doesn't.

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Wayland-Weston-Pipewire-Plug-In

Weston has many different ways of doing screen recording. So what screen recording of weston did you try that did not work.

[avis]

Weston

Weston is considered a proof of concept, a demo of sorts and I'm not aware of any old classic X11 DEs deciding to use it. And even if they exist, it's not something ubiquitous. And weston is not used by either Mutter or KWin, so we already have three major implementations and fragmentation.

And goodbye IceWM whose author rejected a port to Wayland.

[Panix]

Wayland requires each DE/WM to implement a full featured display server. No other OS under the Sun has the same requirements. That's a Wayland fault and nothing has changed.
That's a GTK flaw due to the way Wayland is designed (anti full-featured usable normal desktop mentality). Nice try but no. Troll better and harder next time.

Maybe read the attached bug report before spewing complete nonsense.

Lying about what exactly? GTK because of Wayland breaks not just applications but even Desktop Environments. Ultimately it's a design flaw in Wayland that I cannot get a feature which existed in X11.

Don't throw "lying", OK? Maybe think first.

Good point. These Wayland fanatics are like a cult. I don't know why they're so attached - maybe, they think they'll be offered a job as a promoter or marketing position?
There's pros and cons with Wayland - critiques, too, so, it should be accepted as such.

[Monsterovich]

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Wayland-Weston-Pipewire-Plug-In

Weston has many different ways of doing screen recording. So what screen recording of weston did you try that did not work.

Fragmentation!

The pipewire one. I don't care about the others because they won't work in other Wayland graphical servers.

[avis]

Good point. These Wayland fanatics are like a cult. I don't know why they're so attached - maybe, they think they'll be offered a job as a promoter or marketing position?
There's pros and cons with Wayland - critiques, too, so, it should be accepted as such.

Not a job of course but I guess they wanna look/feel smug and trendy, vs being compared to old farts sticking to something "deprecated", "broken", "not modern", "insecure" and "unmaintained".

[murraytony]

These are completely different things: DE under X11 do not implement the graphical server features. If we talk about Wayland, it's the same as if applications implement the GUI toolkits on their own (GTK, Qt, etc.). The fact that there are multiple X11 implementations (ex. Xenocara is just a fork) is not as bad as DE implementing a graphical server from scratch. Do you feel the difference?


Exactly! Now imagine supporting every single graphical server for every single DE. So there should be unified implementation.

This is why we have KMS, DRM, and Mesa. Most of everything is done by the kernel or common libraries. Compositors only need to do a tiny fraction of what an X11 server would be required to implement.

[HellToupee]

DE does not have to implement the protocol on its own. DE should use the existing API of the graphical server/library, then all applications will have proper mechanisms for accessing each other and no crutches (portals and so on) will be needed.

Wayland doesn't even have a regular xdotool that works everywhere.

Portals are not crutches they are used on x11 and also flatpaks et because they are actually the proper way to work with your desktops mechanisms eg. file picker.

Things like xdotool require protocols/portals to be created which are being worked on if you would read the discussions would see doing something properly is not that straight forward, x11 allowed everything through its insecurity

[avis]

This is why we have KMS, DRM, and Mesa. Most of everything is done by the kernel or common libraries. Compositors only need to do a tiny fraction of what an X11 server would be required to implement.

X.org has been using all of that for ages.

[ezst036]

Don't whine about it being a technical debt, because Wayland is a throwback to the 70s when there were no universal solutions. Xorg is much more modern than Wayland in that regard, and Wayland is a major throwback.

Universal solutions are not always the best.

I learned this truth from reading about systemd and the great ideas promoted by Lennart Poettering, and all the people opposed to systemd because they want more individualized solutions. Systemd is the universal solution to a whole host of problems.

[ezst036]

That's a GTK flaw due to the way Wayland is designed (anti full-featured usable normal desktop mentality). Nice try but no. Troll better and harder next time.

Maybe read the attached bug report before spewing complete nonsense.

Wow. You're blaming a GTK bug on Wayland. Admittedly and openly, and even without recognizing the cognitive dissonance in the first four words. "That's a GTK flaw" You said it. Not me. I did read the bug. The developer stated he did not want to maintain two code paths. So the work is possible.

He is choosing not to do the work. That could not be more clearly NOT a Wayland issue. It's a developer issue, right there in black and white for anybody to go and read.

What I can't understand is why we need to be compliant with GTK? Cut them out of the picture altogether or have them fix their issue.

Remember, you said it: "That's a GTK flaw"