Wayland Enjoyed Many Successes In 2023

[NeoMorpheus]

Command-F "AMD"=0.....

No need to do the same with Ngreedia, since it was already in by word count #10 or so.

If that is in this site, then AMD should really give up on open source and trade it for close source drivers and without lube, since its the preferred method.

[MadCatX]

These are completely different things: DE under X11 do not implement the graphical server features. If we talk about Wayland, it's the same as if applications implement the GUI toolkits on their own (GTK, Qt, etc.). The fact that there are multiple X11 implementations (ex. Xenocara is just a fork) is not as bad as DE implementing a graphical server from scratch. Do you feel the difference?

When you say DE, you mean the Wayland Compositor? I don't want to nitpick on this but it's an important distinction to make. Yes, we currently have multiple Wayland Compositors that have to do more or less the same things. Some of them use wlroots, some of them provide their own solution. At the moment, we have three main "branches" of Wayland Compositors, KWin, Mutter and a few based on wlroots.

On a side note, the X11 WMs/Compositors are also doing more or less the same things but they supply their own code to do that. It's not the same thing as implementing the wayland server protocol but I don't think it's that far off.
On a side note #2, I recall the early days of AIGLX where various "advanced" use cases like accelerated video playback were differently broken under different X11 compositors. Another "big" thing was window unredirecting which also worked/didn't work based on a specific X11 compositor and GPU driver combo. We had fragmentation even under X11.

Exactly! Now imagine supporting every single graphical server for every single DE. So there should be unified implementation.

The problem with X.Org maintenance is that it is a very old code base, it is very complicated and it needs to remain compatible with all kinds of arcane legacy programs. Wayland Compositors do not have that problem. As far as I can tell, none of the current developers of Wayland Compositors have a problem doing and maintaining their own thing. I'd love to get a Wayland Compositor developer's opinion on this.

My understanding of the situation is this. X11 gave the clients lots of freedom to manipulate both themselves and other clients. This freedom was (ab)used to do all kinds of stuff and some of that stuff was useful. Wayland cleaned the house and removed most of this freedom. Unfortunately the number of useful stuff that Wayland cannot do degraded the user experience a lot more the Wayland designers apparently realized. I'd say that this is a failure on their part - a better survey of user needs would have identified these sore spots and they could have been addressed earlier.

Oh I am so sorry that your resize menu ability is not working. How can one live without resizing the menu? I agree it should be the perfect size before clicking on it.

As much as I am in favor of adopting Wayland, these "you're holding it wrong" arguments are really not helpful. The Whisker Menu is a "WIndows 10-like" menu for XFCE and there is a perfectly good reason for it to be resizable. Transition to Wayland should ideally *improve* user experience and it definitely should NOT degrade it.

[mrg666]

As much as I am in favor of adopting Wayland, these "you're holding it wrong" arguments are really not helpful. The Whisker Menu is a "WIndows 10-like" menu for XFCE and there is a perfectly good reason for it to be resizable. Transition to Wayland should ideally *improve* user experience and it definitely should NOT degrade it.

Oh, I see! You mean the Start menu. I just tried in Plasma Wayland. So, It is not a Wayland problem. I didn't know I could resize my KDE menu to any size. I will do it all the time now. Up and down, up and down, it is beautiful!

Why are we discussing this in Wayland thread, then? Why was it brought up here? It works perfectly in Wayland. These guys throwing tantrum for no reason and we need to put up with this .... ?

[MorrisS.]

Oh, I see! You mean the Start menu. I just tried in Plasma Wayland. So, It is not a Wayland problem. I didn't know I could resize my KDE menu to any size. I will do it all the time now. Up and down, up and down, it is beautiful!

Why are we discussing this in Wayland thread, then? Why was it brought up here? It works perfectly in Wayland. These guys throwing tantrum for no reason and we need to put up with this .... ?

In February all your idiocies will face with Plasma Wayland compliant. So you will be able to feel an idiot on your own. Too difficult to understand that Plasma 5 is Xorg based and not Wayland capable.

[mrg666]

In February all your idiocies will face with Plasma Wayland compliant. So you will be able to feel an idiot on your own. Too difficult understand that Plasma 5 is Xorg based and not Wayland capable.

With that grammar, typos, and false info, you call others idiot? Are you kidding? Plasma 5 is full Wayland if you choose, although, I didn't say I used Plasma 5. Plus, Plasma 6 will be awesome for sure, it is already useable.

[MorrisS.]

With that grammar, typos, and false info, you call others idiot? Are you kidding? Plasma 5 is full Wayland if you choose, although, I didn't say I used Plasma 5. Plus, Plasma 6 will be awesome for sure, it is already useable.

Plasma 5 is not full Wayland compliant yet. You don't understand even that Qt 5 is not Wayland capable. KDe will be Plasma complaint to Wayland in Plasma 6 release. I'm not good to write English, but you who are able proof to understand nothing of what is told by the same developers. So you are much more ignorant. Indeed if it is true that you are good in English you are telling that you don't understand what you read in English language clearly. Plasma based on Wayland is set to be ready since the 6 release in the end of February. Have you understood or not? Or are you an idiot?

[anda_skoa]

You don't understand even that Qt 5 is not Wayland capable.

Non-sense.

Wayland has been a supported platform backend for many years.

Qt even comes with a module to write compositors.
Used by quite a number of embedded products that required multi-process/multi-window capabilities and could thus not use the EGLFS backend.

[oiaohm]

You don't understand even that Qt 5 is not Wayland capable.?

There is more than one version of the Wayland protocol. It also does depend on what version of Qt5 you are talking about.

Qt6.6 and newer has Wayland Robustness as mainline code. QT6.5 and before and QT5 line have out of tree patches that give them Wayland robustness.

What is kind of a catch is the core functionality to allow Wayland robustness was only introduced in 2010. 2021 is when KDE developer went looking into if robustness could be done was it rediscovered already in the protocol.

Its like the libcapsule work from valve leading to dlmopen being added to Glibc finding that for the complete time glibc has existed the functionality in the ELF structures glibc uses has been there the complete time.

There are sections of the Wayland protocol that are not well documented on what the the section of the protocol really is meant to be used for and what problems using it you fix or cause.

KDe will be Plasma complaint to Wayland in Plasma 6 release.

The answer here is Plamsa 6 will not be 100 percent complaint to everything that is written into the Wayland specification for what it can do yet.

Its like the wayland robustness bit. The core developer with decades of X11 who wrote the core protocol produced what looks like well written documentation but it does not include documentation how to make the most out this protocol and use it in the best possible. ways. People are still finding thing that would be in face straight forwards to someone with decades of writing X11 core server that the author of the wayland protocol did not bother writing in that resolve issues people complain about. This is not getting to the extensions that have been added to the protocol since.

Plasma 6 will be a vastly improved stepping stone to full Wayland support but its not the final stepping stone.

[HellToupee]

Exactly! Now imagine supporting every single graphical server for every single DE. So there should be unified implementation.

You only have to support the protocols not the server, infact its good there is multiple implementations as solutions have to be done correctly via protocols and portals.

[mrg666]

Plasma 5 is not full Wayland compliant yet. You don't understand even that Qt 5 is not Wayland capable. KDe will be Plasma complaint to Wayland in Plasma 6 release. I'm not good to write English, but you who are able proof to understand nothing of what is told by the same developers. So you are much more ignorant. Indeed if it is true that you are good in English you are telling that you don't understand what you read in English language clearly. Plasma based on Wayland is set to be ready since the 6 release in the end of February. Have you understood or not? Or are you an idiot?

Plasma 5 runs completely in Wayland. Period. You are saying full Wayland protocol is not implemented in kwin. So what? All applications that support Wayland work.

I see you paid special attention with your writing this time. Keep at it, you might safely call others idiot after a while. I recommend avoiding that for now. Just a friendly advice.