Wayland Enjoyed Many Successes In 2023

[pabloski]

Wayland is fucking great!

https://gitlab.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/-/issues/112

I hated it before now my X11 session is getting fucked and maimed because Wayland does not support something.

God, I'm mad.

this is a problem with GtkLayerShell not Wayland per se!! so why are you lying?

[reba]

Wayland is fucking great!

https://gitlab.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/-/issues/112

I hated it before now my X11 session is getting fucked and maimed because Wayland does not support something.

God, I'm mad.

Then why aren't popup menus and dialogs a problem for Gnome and KDE, which have start menus, popups in the traybar, etc.

It looks like they have accumulated some technical debt and are out of their depth regarding Wayland. If its been around for 15 years, why are they just only now using Wayland?
One of their Gtk components seems to be unable to do what they want and they're lost for options. Maybe ask the Gnome guys how they do it.

And when using legacy stuff there will always be a point where you do not update your software anymore when it is not in active development because the world moves on and things break. And then security becomes a problem but IIRC you were one of the deniers and say X11 is safe. So enjoy your X11 while everything around it breaks. But that's Wayland's fault, isn't it?

[ezst036]

Wayland is fucking great!

https://gitlab.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/-/issues/112

I hated it before now my X11 session is getting fucked and maimed because Wayland does not support something.

God, I'm mad.

Back to blaming XFCE technical debt on Wayland again? I said basically this very thing at the beginning.

[ezst036]

Exaggerated lies. The vast majority of Linux users have AMD and Intel GPUs. NVIDIA never stopped any features of Wayland being implemented or working.

If you say so. But you did come through and reliably blame an XFCE issue on Wayland. So, there's that.

Just like I said. "They even blame KDE bugs on Wayland" You did!

You did.

[MadCatX]

Back to blaming XFCE technical debt on Wayland again? I said basically this very thing at the beginning.

The way that one specific bug report reads to me, the Whisker Menu relies on the ability of being able to know its position on the screen and be able to change it. Wayland does not support this in the explicit way X11 did and probably never will. There is a lengthy discussion about this with various proposals here. I think it's noteworthy that even Mir developers do not think that allowing applications to place themselves willy-nilly on the screen is a good idea. Maybe the XFCE developer might want to take a look there and provide their opinion?

[diegodamohill]

Boy do I love opening phoronix forums just to see the weekly x11 vs wayland "debate".

Move on people, or don't, if you want to keep using x11, do it, make it work, the code won't go anywhere, go nuts.

Do we really need to repeat the same arguments every single time?

[Monsterovich]

Back to blaming XFCE technical debt on Wayland again? I said basically this very thing at the beginning.

Don't whine about it being a technical debt, because Wayland is a throwback to the 70s when there were no universal solutions. Xorg is much more modern than Wayland in that regard, and Wayland is a major throwback.

[MadCatX]

Don't whine about it being a technical debt, because Wayland is a throwback to the 70s when there were no universal solutions. Xorg is much more modern than Wayland in that regard, and Wayland is a major throwback.

When you say "universal solution" you mean that there is only one implementation of the X11 protocol? If that's the case, it should be noted that it is not true. There is at least XMing for Windows and XQuartz for macOS and there used to be two implementations for Linux as well. The reason why we have coalesced to X.Org is because X11 server maintenance is a huge undertaking and writing an alternative implementation would be, at best, a lateral move.

[Monsterovich]

When you say "universal solution" you mean that there is only one implementation of the X11 protocol? If that's the case, it should be noted that it is not true. There is at least XMing for Windows and XQuartz for macOS and there used to be two implementations for Linux as well.

These are completely different things: DE under X11 do not implement the graphical server features. If we talk about Wayland, it's the same as if applications implement the GUI toolkits on their own (GTK, Qt, etc.). The fact that there are multiple X11 implementations (ex. Xenocara is just a fork) is not as bad as DE implementing a graphical server from scratch. Do you feel the difference?

X11 server maintenance is a huge

Exactly! Now imagine supporting every single graphical server for every single DE. So there should be unified implementation.

[mrg666]

Don't whine about it being a technical debt, because Wayland is a throwback to the 70s when there were no universal solutions. Xorg is much more modern than Wayland in that regard, and Wayland is a major throwback.

Because you say so?