KDE On Wayland: "The Biggest Thing Needed Now Is Adoption By 3rd Party Apps"

[Quackdoc]

Really happy with this blog post, IMO it's a little optimistic on the current state of wayland/portals protocols (particularly around a11y), but it's nice to see someone promoting wayland while still acknowledging that some users have legitimate reasons to stick with x11. really nice to not be treated like an idiot for once.

[ezst036]

Reading through the discussion thread like this at this point with how mature Wayland is is rather comical.

Someone will try a Wayland session in GNOME, see that it does in fact work fine.

But then they try a Wayland session in KDE, see that it doesn't work. Conclusion? Wayland sucks! It's not ready! Woe is me the sky is falling!

But Wayland is working fine. KDE isn't done finishing its porting work.

And then they try a Wayland session in XFCE, see that it doesn't work. Conclusion? Wayland sucks! It's not ready! Woe is me the sky is falling!

But Wayland is working fine. XFCE isn't done finishing its porting work.

And then they try a Wayland session in Budgie, see that it doesn't work. Conclusion? Wayland sucks! It's not ready! Woe is me the sky is falling!

But Wayland is working fine. Budgie isn't done finishing its porting work.

Or, or user will try a Wayland session in GNOME, see that it does in fact work fine, but then try some old/oddball web browser or game (or other software etc.) that isn't properly supporting Wayland.

Conclusion? Wayland sucks! It's not ready! Woe is me the sky is falling!

Wayland has been mature for a very long time now, those users of Intel and newer AMD video cards can attest to this. Nvidia was a blocker for nearly a decade but even that now is coming to an end. Now its just the individual desktops, and even further toward the bottom, it's just individual applications.

The time has come to stop blaming Wayland because other software offerings haven't finished working through their technical debt. It's the desktop. It's that web browser. It's that office package. It's that game. It's not Wayland.

It hasn't been Wayland for a long time.

[Quackdoc]

It hasn't been Wayland for a long time.

wlr-protocols is all you need to prove that you are wrong, if wayland was ready, compositors wouldn't need to deploy their own custom extensions that lead to fragmentation in the ecosystem

[ezst036]

wlr-protocols is all you need to prove that you are wrong, if wayland was ready, compositors wouldn't need to deploy their own custom extensions that lead to fragmentation in the ecosystem

You're arguing with me that it is the compositors that aren't ready under the disguise that it's Wayland.

This reminds me of a quip I saw recently.

More people eat ice cream in the summer. More people get skin cancer in the summer. Therefore, ice cream must cause skin cancer.

If you aren't going to properly identify the source of the problem, the problem never goes away. Understand?

[andre30correia]

i see problem of wayland and the reasons why after 15 years we still talking about migrations, meanwhile mir didn't have wayland problems but community was going crazy because canonical made it

mir devs think about people who uses desktop and phones,
Mir was much better than wayland when it comes out, then the community happens and maybe redhat and was a big problem.

[RejectModernity]

X11/Wayland devs: X11 is dead
GPU driver devs: X11 is dead
DE devs: X11 is dead
Brainlets posting on linux forums from their mom's basement: RRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEE X11 IS NOT DEAD `xclock` IS NOT PORTED TO WAYLAND THEREFORE WAYLAND IS NOT READY AND 50 YEARS BEHIND

[fitzie]

Really happy with this blog post, IMO it's a little optimistic on the current state of wayland/portals protocols (particularly around a11y), but it's nice to see someone promoting wayland while still acknowledging that some users have legitimate reasons to stick with x11. really nice to not be treated like an idiot for once.

I totally agree, the faults with wayland are obvious, they have a mechanism to fix it (protocols), but progress is very slow. You can see the state here: https://wayland.app/protocols/.

What isn't mentioned in the blog post is why exactly wayland has screwed over users/app developers for so long? (it only makes references to X developers being shell shocked). If there was a major compositor that somehow didn't implement all these features as protocols when other compositors did, and didn't expose them to application developers at all in any meaningful way, and somehow stuck to it's cargo cult mentality of configuration is bad, the future of the desktop is some antiquated code that treats the desktop like it was a touch interface. That now decides that xdg-portals are the way to achieve cross compositor compatibilit.

The funny thing is that my gnome desktop has reverted back to X11 recently. Apparently using gdm autologin somehow breaks wayland, so gnome failsback to X11. I was surprised that none of my desktop broke, every single application failsback to x11 or still uses x11 to begin with. I guess there's probably very few people not using Xwayland with wayland.

[fitzie]

X11/Wayland devs: X11 is dead
GPU driver devs: X11 is dead
DE devs: X11 is dead
Brainlets posting on linux forums from their mom's basement: RRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEE X11 IS NOT DEAD `xclock` IS NOT PORTED TO WAYLAND THEREFORE WAYLAND IS NOT READY AND 50 YEARS BEHIND

it's obvious you didn't even read the article. here's a clue for you

These are real problems and we shouldn’t sweep them under the rug.

keep your gaslighting to yourself.

[Quackdoc]

You're arguing with me that it is the compositors that aren't ready under the disguise that it's Wayland.

This reminds me of a quip I saw recently.

More people eat ice cream in the summer. More people get skin cancer in the summer. Therefore, ice cream must cause skin cancer.

If you aren't going to properly identify the source of the problem, the problem never goes away. Understand?

im saying WAYLAND protocol spec is the issue because WAYLAND protocol spec doesn't cover many of the use cases people need. WAYLAND is not ready, it is NOT the fault of compositors

[Quackdoc]

I totally agree, the faults with wayland are obvious, they have a mechanism to fix it (protocols), but progress is very slow. You can see the state here: https://wayland.app/protocols/.

What isn't mentioned in the blog post is why exactly wayland has screwed over users/app developers for so long? (it only makes references to X developers being shell shocked). If there was a major compositor that somehow didn't implement all these features as protocols when other compositors did, and didn't expose them to application developers at all in any meaningful way, and somehow stuck to it's cargo cult mentality of configuration is bad, the future of the desktop is some antiquated code that treats the desktop like it was a touch interface. That now decides that xdg-portals are the way to achieve cross compositor compatibilit.

The funny thing is that my gnome desktop has reverted back to X11 recently. Apparently using gdm autologin somehow breaks wayland, so gnome failsback to X11. I was surprised that none of my desktop broke, every single application failsback to x11 or still uses x11 to begin with. I guess there's probably very few people not using Xwayland with wayland.

Decore is still a pain on gnome, and gnome *finally* added support for idle inhibit a mere 3 weeks ago. gotta love the fragmentation