Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

KDE On Wayland: "The Biggest Thing Needed Now Is Adoption By 3rd Party Apps"

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    i see problem of wayland and the reasons why after 15 years we still talking about migrations, meanwhile mir didn't have wayland problems but community was going crazy because canonical made it

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by avis View Post

      Blurry appearance will persist for at least a decade more (high DPI screens will hopefully become a norm later) because Wayland has no concept of DPI and everything is raster. According to Wayland fans it's all good.

      Xorg, Windows, MacOS, iOS and Android all have DPI scaling, Wayland doesn't.
      Wayland has fractional scaling - is there any scenario where that doesn't cover what you are talking about? BTW., scaling in general works *way* better on Wayland than on X11/Xorg.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by avis View Post

        Blurry appearance will persist for at least a decade more (high DPI screens will hopefully become a norm later) because Wayland has no concept of DPI and everything is raster. According to Wayland fans it's all good.

        Xorg, Windows, MacOS, iOS and Android all have DPI scaling, Wayland doesn't.
        Counterintuitively, that's why I'm waiting for 8K to be mass adopted. So much cleanly integer scales into 8K that I'm hoping it fixes blurring from scaling.

        Comment


        • #24
          In addition, the problem of fragmentation of effort is being solved by wlroots, a library of Wayland implementations that you can use to build a Wayland compositor. We don’t use it in KDE’s KWin compositor because we already did most of that work ourselves before wlroots existed, but it’s a big benefit to anyone writing a new compositor from scratch today. And there’s a chance we might port KWin to use wlroots in the future.
          Well that seems like it could be nice. wlroots is basically the mythical "X12" that'll replace X11.

          Comment


          • #25
            Wayland works really well with the newer AMD cards and it is my daily driver. Unfortunately, there are bug on older hardware like the 7970 (TAHITIXT), preventing it's usage as stable.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by avis View Post
              It's nice to read this:



              Because on Phoronix, r/Linux and OSNews, Wayland fans are screaming with their ears shut that it's not an issue.



              And we still have omissions. Bravo. Wayland is a prime example of how not to design a desktop graphics API. And 10 years from now people will still be using "broken" "unsupported" Xorg because it was designed for people not for lofty ideas.

              Everything about this post reeks of "We are done with Xorg but unfortunately we have to deal with this crap called Wayland". Maybe Wayland needs to be dropped and something desktopy has to be created again. Yes.

              X11 needed to be redesigned, not dropped and replaced with something completely different which is alien to desktop.
              Sadly they tried it multiple times... Xorg is dead and so will be Wayland in the future, things get better and move on. Don't be to attached to it, use the best tool that can get the job done for now.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by avis View Post
                If Wayland worked, would we still have this argument 15 years after its inception? If Wayland worked, would I even post anything here? If Wayland worked, why would a KDE developer write 4 pages of text ... convincing people to give it a try or port their applications to it?

                Why are people not arguing about PipeWire? Or Vulkan? Or Glibc? Or ... Wine/DXVK? Or a ton of other things in Linux? Because they were designed and developed by sensible people.
                i don't understand with what mind people argue against this facts
                Last edited by relsi1053; 18 September 2023, 09:02 AM.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

                  Counterintuitively, that's why I'm waiting for 8K to be mass adopted. So much cleanly integer scales into 8K that I'm hoping it fixes blurring from scaling.
                  I'm all in, but not if it costs an arm and a leg

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    I'm very much a Wayland advocate and just about everything I run on it works well, but X11 is not dead and so long as there is popular software that doesn't support it, it won't die.
                    We can only officially regard X11 as dead when the average desktop user can uninstall it and not notice it is gone.

                    And yeah, while users like avis are so biased they don't even know what they're talking about, some of you seem to find Wayland more ready than it actually is. This is coming from someone who has no problems with it at all. But I'm not everyone.

                    Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
                    Counterintuitively, that's why I'm waiting for 8K to be mass adopted. So much cleanly integer scales into 8K that I'm hoping it fixes blurring from scaling.
                    I don't see 8K becoming mass adopted for over a decade. I figure if you can't get clean scaling at 4K, you might be able to at 5K.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by avis View Post
                      It's nice to read this:
                      ...
                      Because on Phoronix, r/Linux and OSNews, Wayland fans are screaming with their ears shut that it's not an issue.
                      ...
                      And we still have omissions. Bravo. Wayland is a prime example of how not to design a desktop graphics API. And 10 years from now people will still be using "broken" "unsupported" Xorg because it was designed for people not for lofty ideas.


                      Originally posted by avis View Post

                      Bashing? I quoted the KDE team lead.
                      ...
                      No idea, don't ask me. Ask those folks who misdesigned Wayland. Actually from what I remember the idea was to create something very basic and simple and build on top of it. This is not how you design a desktop graphics API. The idea certainly worked for things like kiosks where there's a single full screen application running and people just interact with it.

                      The computer desktop is something completely different though.

                      If Wayland worked, would we still have this argument 15 years after its inception? If Wayland worked, would I even post anything here? If Wayland worked, why would a KDE developer write 4 pages of text ... convincing people to give it a try or port their applications to it?

                      Why are people not arguing about PipeWire? Or Vulkan? Or Glibc? Or ... Wine/DXVK? Or a ton of other things in Linux? Because they were designed and developed by sensible people.
                      I almost never agree with this birdie/avis fellow on anything, but here we are.

                      Nate Graham isn't deaf or blind, which is nice to see; and he's not wrong either.

                      Scaling is apparently still an ugly mess. Someone said wlroots might be x12, and maybe they're right, but then again I'm not a dev, and I haven't looked at how far wlroots has come.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X