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KDE On Wayland: "The Biggest Thing Needed Now Is Adoption By 3rd Party Apps"

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  • #71
    Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post

    wlr-protocols is all you need to prove that you are wrong, if wayland was ready, compositors wouldn't need to deploy their own custom extensions that lead to fragmentation in the ecosystem
    Not every compositor wants to implement all features. Making those part of the core wayland protocol isn't really constructive either. You can look at the debate about accent color portals as an example. It's like politics - much struggle and drama, slow, if any progress. Sometimes, a consensus cannot be reached because the interests are diametrically opposed from one another.

    Besides, with the progress that wlroots makes, it is turning into a broadly supported one-fits-all solution anyways. The need for custom protocol extensions or reinventing the wheel for the 11th time is dwindling at this point.

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    • #72
      I wouldn't call something that doesn't even have the basics down such as working colour management, usable. Wayland is a prime example of how not to develop such an important system component, with each compositor having to re-invent the wheel and do it's own thing.

      15 years later and it's still not widely adopted or standardized, if that doesn't signify major problem to you then I do not know what does.

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      • #73
        Originally posted by V1tol View Post
        And that drama about "wayland makes me write more code when earlier everything was done by X11" reminds me the war around OpenGL vs Vulkan. I hope nobody argues today that Vulkan is the future, right?
        Not to detract for your general point but this is a terrible analogy. The reason why Vulkan is better than OpenGL even though you have to write more code is because Vulkan is lower level, which gives you proper control over things like concurrency and pipeline. Before Vulkan there was no lower level GPU agnostic API for 3D graphics, it was all high level OpenGL/DirectX/Voodoo etc etc.

        On the other hand, the extra code that people talk about wrt to Wayland is not that more code needs to be written, its that the (roughly) same type of code is being duplicated in all of the compositors because previously that code was in a common place in X11 (which was re-used by the various compositors).
        Last edited by mdedetrich; 18 September 2023, 03:43 PM.

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        • #74
          Originally posted by Britoid View Post

          So you have two massive shifts on the Linux desktop, and the Linux desktop doesn't have one large power like Microsoft or Apple who can heavily push app developers and device drivers to update.
          Its only Apple that has this power to force app developers to update, with Windows they just have insane backwards compatibility.

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          • #75
            Originally posted by Weasel View Post
            That's actually a problem, since apps still can't query absolute window positions.

            If lacking such an essential feature is "mature" then it's a complete lost cause and dead by design.
            If it's so essential, how come big desktop applications can do just fine without it these days? It's only a problem when you try to emulate archaic win32 stuff or whatever, but in modern user interfaces it shouldn't really matter. The fact that 30 years old software would draw some elements based on absolute positioning of the entire screen (or multiple screens for that matter) doesn't mean it's the right thing to do 2023.
            That's basically a complaint of not being able to do dumb and problematic stuff anymore, as some super weird behaviors of context menus and popup dialogs that required shit ton of workarounds on X now suddenly aren't possible anymore.

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            • #76
              Originally posted by kiffmet View Post

              Not every compositor wants to implement all features.
              which leads to fragmentation, and fragmentation leads to wayland "not being ready"

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              • #77
                Originally posted by bple2137 View Post
                If it's so essential, how come big desktop applications can do just fine without it these days?
                Because they can't?

                Scripts are apps, so show me a macro script that can automate that for you as a power user. Like xdotool can on X11 or AutoHotkey can on Windows (name is misleading, it's far more than just hotkeys).

                Just because YOU don't automate your workflow and like to repeat your shit instead of working smart, doesn't mean other power users don't.

                I am so sick of people who just browse the web and play games and call that a "desktop PC" and "works just fine for me!!!".

                So how tf can they "do just fine" when they legit cannot do this for a power user? LMAO.

                Keep burying your head in the sand, and being an ignorant, because you know if you refuse to believe such things exist, then sure Wayland is perfect. Pure ignorance.
                Last edited by Weasel; 18 September 2023, 04:06 PM.

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                • #78
                  Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
                  Its only Apple that has this power to force app developers to update, with Windows they just have insane backwards compatibility.
                  Yeah and explains why Apple has like 2% market share even among developers' target.

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                  • #79
                    My wish list has Steam, Krita, and GIMP.

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                    • #80
                      Originally posted by Weasel View Post
                      Because they can't?

                      Scripts are apps, so show me a macro script that can automate that for you as a power user. Like xdotool can on X11 or AutoHotkey can on Windows (name is misleading, it's far more than just hotkeys).

                      Just because YOU don't automate your workflow and like to repeat your shit instead of working smart, doesn't mean other power users don't.

                      I am so sick of people who just browse the web and play games and call that a "desktop PC" and "works just fine for me!!!".

                      So how tf can they "do just fine" when they legit cannot do this for a power user? LMAO.

                      Keep burying your head in the sand, and being an ignorant, because you know if you refuse to believe such things exist, then sure Wayland is perfect. Pure ignorance.
                      Have you tried :
                      Generic command-line automation tool (no X!). Contribute to ReimuNotMoe/ydotool development by creating an account on GitHub.


                      It requires root privileges

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