Fedora 40 Looks To Offer KDE Plasma 6 Desktop, Drop The KDE X11 Session

[luno]

I don't know what some people are complaining about.
Long time Fedora user on multiple desktops and laptops here.
I've only been running Gnome so far, but that works perfectly fine on Wayland using any GPU.
Those on nvidia should just take 5 minutes to read the steps here: https://rpmfusion.org/Howto/NVIDIA
And from the reports above, people have been using KDE wayland successfully as well, also on nvidia.

it works well in Nvidia too, specially last releases fixed lot of Wayland issues in Nvidia, even hardware acceleration works flawlessly in Firefox using Nvidia

[TemplarGR]

That's not how new tech is normally implemented by sane operating systems. Windows Vista had a brand new graphics stack and no one noticed.

Ah yes, Birdie with his nonsense.....

Windows Vista was developed as a closed source OS, internally, by thousands of developers. It also forced the hand of everyone in the Windows ecosystem to cooperate with the new stack, and it had TONS OF ISSUES at first, but no one insisted that the new stack was garbage and unneeded and they needed to revert to the Windows XP stack....

Opensource projects, which you clearly hate despite wasting your time on open source forums, do not have the luxury of internal development. They need to be developed in the open, and in order to gain traction, resources, bug testing, etc, they need to be used first. So the only way forward is for opensource users to use sub-par projects at first, before they advance. There is no alternative.

[mbar]

Nvidia hasn't been a great experience for me.

FTFY.

[Tomin]

Kwin crashes under xorg don't result in applications exiting abruptly. I've not had a single xorg server crash over the past 15 years or so.

You tout it as a new cool feature except
xorg
never
had
this
issue
in
the
first
place.

(Emphasis added)

I think you are ignoring the fact that Xorg is very old. Because AFAIU it used to crash, and it used to crash a lot. Xorg has just had a lot of time to fix all those crashes and there has been relatively little new feature development since, so it is not that surprising if it hasn't crashed in past 10 or 15 years for someone.

I weren't a user back in early 2000's or in 90's yet so I can't comment from experience, but that's what I've heard. Heck, I think in the past 15 years, I've had some xorg crashes, even if those were a long time ago. I'm thinking like somewhere in 2007-2010 (so might be just barely outside past 15 years mark), which is around the time we got compositing window managers.

If you want to learn what is different in this situation and how kwin's crash recovery will be even better than Xorg + kwin combo, this is a great read: https://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/bl...nd_robustness/. I really recommend it. There are also some nice videos that show it in action. Surely, there is some more work to do before most people get to benefit from it, but in any case it will be great and won't be very long until it's here (of course it depends on what you consider a long time, but this is more of a matter of months than years).

[xAlt7x]

it works well in Nvidia too, specially last releases fixed lot of Wayland issues in Nvidia, even hardware acceleration works flawlessly in Firefox using Nvidia

Unless you have Kepler series which stuck with Nvidia 470 driver (that doesn't support Wayland).
The only choice for those users is Nouveau (preferably with re-clocking tweak)

[smitty3268]

That's not how new tech is normally implemented by sane operating systems. Windows Vista had a brand new graphics stack and no one noticed.

LOL, that's probably the wildest thing you've ever posted on here. The entire tech world was talking about what a disaster Vista was compared to the stable XP that had come before, and these forums were filled to the brim with people saying that it was so bad the year of linux was inevitable as people fled for greener pastures.

Then Windows 7 came out and everyone pretty much agreed it fixed everything Vista broke.

[mrg666]

Good to see Plasma goes in Fedora main. Although this is just a suggestion yet, it shows confidence in the timely release and quality of Plasma.

[geearf]

(Emphasis added)

I think you are ignoring the fact that Xorg is very old. Because AFAIU it used to crash, and it used to crash a lot. Xorg has just had a lot of time to fix all those crashes and there has been relatively little new feature development since, so it is not that surprising if it hasn't crashed in past 10 or 15 years for someone.

I weren't a user back in early 2000's or in 90's yet so I can't comment from experience, but that's what I've heard. Heck, I think in the past 15 years, I've had some xorg crashes, even if those were a long time ago. I'm thinking like somewhere in 2007-2010 (so might be just barely outside past 15 years mark), which is around the time we got compositing window managers.

If you want to learn what is different in this situation and how kwin's crash recovery will be even better than Xorg + kwin combo, this is a great read: https://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/bl...nd_robustness/. I really recommend it. There are also some nice videos that show it in action. Surely, there is some more work to do before most people get to benefit from it, but in any case it will be great and won't be very long until it's here (of course it depends on what you consider a long time, but this is more of a matter of months than years).

I've recently had xorg restarting when playing some video files. I don't know what the actual issue was (I'm assuming in mpv/libplacebo/ffmpeg but that should be better handled by the drivers/Xorg) so I wouldn't say it's 100% stable today.

The link was super interesting, thanks!

[Rovano]

Kwin crashes under xorg don't result in applications exiting abruptly. I've not had a single xorg server crash over the past 15 years or so.

X.org crashed quite routinely a few years back. Windows Vista brought WDDM. Hardly after that it could have been without problems. On the contrary, there were big problems with it, but one layer below.
It was similar at one time in Windows 10. They also changed something and the Windows dispaly server started crashing.

[avis]

Oh no, people noticed. There's even a section in the Wikipedia article about criticisms of Windows Vista.

Slower initially, right, then fixed, alright? Wayland will never get its shit fixed, because it has nothing to preserve compatibility. Classic X applications in Wayland are basically emulated and lose their low-level Xorg/X11 abilities (global shortcuts, systray, screen recording, networking, etc).

avis Vista had severe issues for months with its new graphics driver model, including bluescreens.

Yes, video driver related BSODs, specially for NVIDIA who had troubles for quite some time. I never denied that. Not that Vista itself crashed.

Here, we are talking about the Window Manager (Compositor) aka Dispay Server crashing which will never be solved. OK, Qt created a workaround specifically for Wayland, what's the chance that every other toolkit, XWayland and applications not using toolkits, e.g. Chrome will get the same treatment? Zero. Why should a toolkit even care about the graphics stack it's running on? This is not how it's done in Windows, Android, iOS and MacOS. In Windows I can kill dwm.exe every second and it will not affect my running applications in any way. Everything will keep on running.

Wayland has an ass design. The Window Manager and Display Server must have never been the same thing. Wayland fans scream it's "alright" and keep losing their work. 15 years in. What a joke.

And this amazing Qt feature not do die after your Window Manager crashed? Not yet there. Debian users will get it 3 years later at the earliest.