Fedora 40 Looks To Offer KDE Plasma 6 Desktop, Drop The KDE X11 Session

[arQon]

AFAIU it used to crash, and it used to crash a lot.

I weren't a user back in early 2000's or in 90's yet so I can't comment from experience

I was, and I can: it absolutely did. A LOT.

95%+ of the crashes were in the X *drivers* though, not XOrg - i.e. the pieces that Wayland still uses. It has literally nothing to do with any magic "stability dust" added later. This is how things "should" go, but it doesn't mean Wayland should be given any credit for that work, since it had nothing to do with it.
Since then, as you'd expect, Wayland has unsurprisingly introduced thousands of bugs of its own (and fixed hundreds), while X has added approximately none.

As a result, there's no question that Wayland still crashes infinitely more often than X. avis is correct on that front, and... yeah, I'd say 10 years is about right (maybe a little high), and closer to 15 for nvidia. The Vista comment is both ridiculous at a glance *and* accurate, depending on how you read it. Lots of old hardware stopped working, and at launch it was both slow in general and broken in edge cases, but there are three critical differences here:

1) *All* of that was fixed in the (by then, basically 3) drivers and Vista itself, not the *literally millions* of Windows apps. Nobody else had to change a single line of code for that to happen. Wayland is requiring what amounts to a complete rewrite of every piece of graphics-adjacent userspace code ever written. (Outside of XWayland, which is the one piece the project has actually delivered on so far).

2) The end result was a massively more robust system, not a more fragile one. SW-induced BSODs essentially became a thing of the past even for gamers, rather than the common event they'd been in XP.

3) The timeframe was "months", not "decades". Even if someone feels dishonest enough to dispute the "months" part, it would be ridiculous to claim that the situation continued past the release of W7. "But, MS money!" and similar excuses. No. nvidia is a trillion dollar company. Intel is a trillion dollar company. AMD's not exactly in poverty any more either; and RedHat, who've been the ones driving this train over the cliff for the last 15 years, was a billion dollar company back in *2012*.

So, now we're all better informed, at least. I'll leave the rest of this thread's problems for someone else.

[uid313]

If you just want a simple text editor (with syntax highlighting but no other shenanigans), use KWrite instead… Kate is designed such that it can be used as an IDE.

Thanks!

I just tried KWrite, it was much better than Kate, but much worse than GNOME Text Editor.

[xtellaris]

I believe there would be some way to restore x11 support about that time, or it could be a really bold desition to desktop users.

[NSLW]

Not happy with this proposal. Legacy NVIDIA drivers rely on the X11 session.

[uid313]

If you just want a simple text editor (with syntax highlighting but no other shenanigans), use KWrite instead… Kate is designed such that it can be used as an IDE.

Thank you!

KWrite is much better than Kate. As for Kate, if I wanted a IDE I wouldn't use it, I would use VS Code instead, or Pulsar (the community fork of the discontinued editor Atom).

[mSparks]

I recently switched to openSUSE TW and I feel I made the right choice. Fedora experiments won't affect me anymore.

Is openSUSE still using Fedora paradigms? (dnf, /usr/lib64, grub2, Discover etc)

[danger]

after a year wtih Fedora he had moved to OpenSUSE because Fedora just had far too many abandoned and out-of-date packages in its repos

I recently switched to openSUSE TW and I feel I made the right choice. Fedora experiments won't affect me anymore.

[kiffmet]

I think it looks horrible and have a UI that is confusing.
It feels way too complicated for a text editor so for a text editor I would want something much simpler, and for real work, I would prefer a IDE. So I would rather go for gedit or VS Code instead.

If you just want a simple text editor (with syntax highlighting but no other shenanigans), use KWrite instead… Kate is designed such that it can be used as an IDE.

[smitty3268]

Wine is also still in progress to move to wayland it seems, my last info is from 2022. Maybe I need to config something but that seems to be affected.

WINE has a 3rd party branch with mostly complete Wayland support in it, that's currently in the process of getting (very slowly) upstreamed. Probably another year away from that process finishing.

My guess is SDL3 and a Steam port will probably come soon after.

[LockedPotato]

Global shortcuts and screen recording both work on Wayland.

The Wayland implementation in qt/kde5 was (at times?) buggy (for instance I am unaware of any screen freezing on gnome-shell) and the developers are confident that those bugs are/will be resolved in Qt6/KDE6.]

It is interesting that the KDE community is moving faster in deprecating the X11 backend as normally you will get the haters either blaming gnome or Red Hat. This gives a different dynamic.

I've been using Plasma Wayland for over a year now and had exactly one crash. It wasn't even KWin's fault. Chromium decoding video via VAAPI crashed my GPU driver and froze the entire computer.