VVenC 1.11 Brings More Performance Improvements For H.266/VVC Encoding

[shmerl]

I'm surprised this is even still a thing. Isn't it completely DOA? Hopefully no one will add this to hardware.

[shmerl]

Absolutely nothing.

It's all garbage becasue MPEG-LA trolls killed their own golden goose. No matter what they improve there, no one will care to use it due to every racketeer wanting to get paid for it. Let's hope this whole MPEG licensing approach will die with this DOA codec.

Basically, pay attention to hardware encoders. If no one will add H.266 - it means it's dead. And how these crooks will be able to convince anyone to add it? They have no leverage.

[sophisticles]

There's a bit of a misconception that AV1 is not patented.

In all fairness nearly everything related to codes is patented, or at least was at one time: AQ, B frames, psy-rd, the list goes on.

It's really funny that people on this forum swear open source but don't realize, or don't care, that it all started as patent encumbered, closed source, code.

There is very little that any open source developer ever created, most was created by a closed source developer that eventually let open source fan boys have the scraps.

[sophisticles]

You've been here for 8 years and you haven't figured out that uid313 (seriously) wants everything (re)written in Rust?

To be fair I want someone to combine C and Rust and into a new programming language called CRust and do so while wearing a clown outfit.

[Quackdoc]

They're not useless but they're just shy of it. They take a hell of a lot longer to encode unless you're a gamer and manage to get a new GPU before the $COIN miners/AI nerds bought them all. Same for any resolutions over 1080p. And even then, you can't tweak GPU encoding to your own arbitrary preferences like you can with CPU encoding.

Not even remotely true, 1080p60 realtime can be achieved with many CPUs now. Even my ryzen 2600 can do 1080p60 with svtav1 at preset 10, and 1080p40 at preset 9, both of which give good quality for streaming scenarios. For real time chatting at 720p30 like skype or facebook use many devices can power through that easily. HEVC is easily encodeable with libx265 at decent qualities too.

we gain massive size and bandwidth savings which means people with slower internet like millions around the world or lower storage space get massive benefits from HEVC and AV1.

[TheMightyBuzzard]

Not even remotely true, 1080p60 realtime can be achieved with many CPUs now. Even my ryzen 2600 can do 1080p60 with svtav1 at preset 10, and 1080p40 at preset 9, both of which give good quality for streaming scenarios. For real time chatting at 720p30 like skype or facebook use many devices can power through that easily. HEVC is easily encodeable with libx265 at decent qualities too.

we gain massive size and bandwidth savings which means people with slower internet like millions around the world or lower storage space get massive benefits from HEVC and AV1.

That's interesting how you just made my point for me and thought it was a rebuttal. I'm not interested in tying my CPU up for two hours to encode a two hour video because some noob thought realtime was fast enough. It's not. It was the very start of usable over a decade ago and should be scoffed at for being absurdly resource hogging nowadays. And "good quality for streaming scenarios" means crap quality. So saying you can manage 1080p60 if you peg your CPU out the entire time and still can't manage good quality? Yeah, that's not a rebuttal of any sort.

[NateHubbard]

This is an echo chamber of people who believe Linux/Open Source/Patent Free world is the best there is.

Interesting, because it seems to me that you are on here posting as much as everyone else combined on every other article.

[avis]

Sorry Nocifer, I don't see your message and I can't quote it because I have you blacklisted.

Meanwhile could you quote me on being toxic and spewing bs please? Maybe you were talking about your fellow open source lovers who at every turn express their hatred and talk bs about anything not open source/patented despite it all being created by honest hard working people?

You denigrate them with all your might just because you feel superior having chosen not to use their work. Like I said on multiple occasions: Who are we? Open source fans. What do we do? We hate!

People who invented vvc and invested their wits into it are not evil. Managers and corporations are. You got it all wrong. And even that is not entirely true. Companies just want to profit off what they've heavily invested off. That's why vvc is faster/better/less complex than av1.

Keep on hating without ever creating anything. That perfectly describes a large percentage of people here. You don't hear actual developers hating other developers ever. They respect one another. Respect is an alien word for you. You don't even pay for Linux.

[Quackdoc]

That's interesting how you just made my point for me and thought it was a rebuttal. I'm not interested in tying my CPU up for two hours to encode a two hour video because some noob thought realtime was fast enough. It's not.

If you think realtime isn't fast enough, just use a lower preset? Im not sure in which cases realtime isn't fast enough, im sure you have your use cases. However for the vast majority of people realtime is the bar that matters

It was the very start of usable over a decade ago and should be scoffed at for being absurdly resource hogging nowadays. And "good quality for streaming scenarios" means crap quality. So saying you can manage 1080p60 if you peg your CPU out the entire time and still can't manage good quality? Yeah, that's not a rebuttal of any sort.

not it doesn't, Firstly, the vast majority of encoders don't even thread well to begin with, so you are pegging maybe 4-8 threads, any greater then quadcore + hyperthreading device will have good headroom as do I on my ryzen 2600.

Secondly, I'm not sure what you think streaming scenario means, maybe you spend too much time on twitch or something. I deal with VDI and remote gaming. both need high quality streams, At this quality YUV420 is quite literally the bottleneck. Im not surprised however that you made that mistake, Especially since you seem to think that your idea of a "good encoder" extrapolates to everyone, it doesn't. It doesn't extrapolate to streaming services which are the single greatest distributor of video content that are migrating hard to AV1 from HEVC/VP9, which was a migration from AVC. Nor does it extrapolate to people who do real time streams over facebook/messenger or whatever people are using now.

Thirdly, Im not sure why you called me a noob, I've been doing video related stuff as an enthusiast for quite a long time and have done it professionally for a while too. Especially when you showcase that you have a lack of common encoding knowledge when it comes to video stuff, I really wouldn't call anyone a noob.

I also have significant doubts when you claim to be needing to encode a two hour video for 2 hours, very little content is natively 60fps, it's most commonly 24/30fps, in these cases you do have greater then realtime encoding, it would be 2x speed at least given 30fps content. and if you use an encoding tool like av1an which will chunk your encodes, you can get even greater speeds if your processors is fast enough. However pretending that 60fps content is the norm, and that does extrapolate to the majority usecase, and remember we are talking about more then just yourself, I believe that was made explicitly clear given the context, (I am explicitly not bringing up compatibility because that was a personal thing, which is fair,) you can easily get greater then 1080p60 on software encoding when you bump the presets.

Yes they are less efficient, However they are still more efficient then libx264 given acceptable qualities people will typically watch content on (IE. VOD like netflix/youtube).

I understand if perhaps you have a slow/outdated processor that these may not be true to you, however it most certainly is true for content distributors, people in both high quality, and low quality streaming scenarios. So the claim that it's "Useless engineering for geeks" as which was originally claimed, or "Nearly useless" is devoid of any semblance to reality.

[TheMightyBuzzard]

Sorry Nocifer, I don't see your message and I can't quote it because I have you blacklisted.

Meanwhile could you quote me on being toxic and spewing bs please? Maybe you were talking about your fellow open source lovers who at every turn express their hatred and talk bs about anything not open source/patented despite it all being created by honest hard working people?

You denigrate them with all your might just because you feel superior having chosen not to use their work. Like I said on multiple occasions: Who are we? Open source fans. What do we do? We hate!

People who invented vvc and invested their wits into it are not evil. Managers and corporations are. You got it all wrong. And even that is not entirely true. Companies just want to profit off what they've heavily invested off. That's why vvc is faster/better/less complex than av1.

Keep on hating without ever creating anything. That perfectly describes a large percentage of people here. You don't hear actual developers hating other developers ever. They respect one another. Respect is an alien word for you. You don't even pay for Linux.

There you go. You asked to be quoted on being toxic and spewing BS and now you have.

Yes, you were. When you act like a child back to people who are acting like children you are no different than they are.

See, we (a few jackasses aside) don't hate the guys making a buck writing patented software; everyone has to eat. We do hate that software patents exist at all and we hate people and companies who abuse those patents. MPEG LA is a founding member of the latter group.

Now, me, I've been a developer for both open and closed source software since the 90s. Probably even some patented stuff, I never cared enough to ask. And I can tell you for certain that there are plenty of other developers out there that I have wanted to teach the Secret Neckshake to over the years. And I still worked with them, because that's what grown-ups do.

Now I'm 95% retired though and no longer working on FOSS because I can't stand the whiny little commie twerps in the communities. Which means I don't have any reason to give a rodent's large, furry posterior about getting along with childish jackasses like you. It's a wonderful feeling.