VVenC 1.11 Brings More Performance Improvements For H.266/VVC Encoding

[avis]

There you go. You asked to be quoted on being toxic and spewing BS and now you have.

Yes, you were. When you act like a child back to people who are acting like children you are no different than they are.

See, we (a few jackasses aside) don't hate the guys making a buck writing patented software; everyone has to eat. We do hate that software patents exist at all and we hate people and companies who abuse those patents. MPEG LA is a founding member of the latter group.

Now, me, I've been a developer for both open and closed source software since the 90s. Probably even some patented stuff, I never cared enough to ask. And I can tell you for certain that there are plenty of other developers out there that I have wanted to teach the Secret Neckshake to over the years. And I still worked with them, because that's what grown-ups do.

Now I'm 95% retired though and no longer working on FOSS because I can't stand the whiny little commie twerps in the communities. Which means I don't have any reason to give a rodent's large, furry posterior about getting along with childish jackasses like you. It's a wonderful feeling.

First of all, how does me describing the overall atmosphere on these forums make me or this message toxic? People here are extremely hostile, dismissive and insulting against everything non-open source or patented even despite the fact that the AV1 codec is based on a metric ton of algorithms which were born as patented but then found themselves in the public domain. Instead of attacking the legal system, your fellow open source lovers don't mince words attacking people who created unique very important and useful stuff.

Secondly, how does MPEG abuse patents exactly? Could you elaborate on that? I presume everything they do is strictly legal in the US and other countries which recognize patents or patent laws. Abuse is a very strong word, dude.

Lastly, I'm not from the US, so I don't understand this reference, "I have wanted to teach the Secret Neckshake to over the years". What did you mean?

Don't try to be righteous, be logical and rational. By blaming me for being toxic you are neither logical nor rational, you're emotional. Nothing in my message was "toxic", "toxic" is your feeling/impression and nothing that I said or implied was intended to be so.

[TheMightyBuzzard]

If you think realtime isn't fast enough, just use a lower preset? Im not sure in which cases realtime isn't fast enough, im sure you have your use cases. However for the vast majority of people realtime is the bar that matters

If I'm calling the quality you can encode realtime crappy, what makes you think I'm open to using a lower preset? Yeah, I do, content creator and editor. You do not work with garbage starting out if you don't want your final product being even worse. Glad to see you're comfortable speaking for the entire world though. Narcissistic jackass.

not it doesn't, Firstly, the vast majority of encoders don't even thread well to begin with, so you are pegging maybe 4-8 threads, any greater then quadcore + hyperthreading device will have good headroom as do I on my ryzen 2600.

Wrong. You may not see linear gains above a dozen threads but you will still see some gains up to at least two dozen.

Secondly, I'm not sure what you think streaming scenario means, maybe you spend too much time on twitch or something. I deal with VDI and remote gaming. both need high quality streams, At this quality YUV420 is quite literally the bottleneck. Im not surprised however that you made that mistake, Especially since you seem to think that your idea of a "good encoder" extrapolates to everyone, it doesn't. It doesn't extrapolate to streaming services which are the single greatest distributor of video content that are migrating hard to AV1 from HEVC/VP9, which was a migration from AVC. Nor does it extrapolate to people who do real time streams over facebook/messenger or whatever people are using now.

You talk for the majority of people and then say your expertise comes from a niche market like remote gaming? That's just hilarious. And don't even bring up streaming TV/Movies services. Their quality sucks. We know it. They know it. We know they know it. They know we know it. There just isn't a better legal alternative.

Thirdly, Im not sure why you called me a noob, I've been doing video related stuff as an enthusiast for quite a long time and have done it professionally for a while too. Especially when you showcase that you have a lack of common encoding knowledge when it comes to video stuff, I really wouldn't call anyone a noob.

Because you're acting like a child. And now also because you apparently are a literal noob from my perspective.

I also have significant doubts when you claim to be needing to encode a two hour video for 2 hours, very little content is natively 60fps, it's most commonly 24/30fps, in these cases you do have greater then realtime encoding, it would be 2x speed at least given 30fps content. and if you use an encoding tool like av1an which will chunk your encodes, you can get even greater speeds if your processors is fast enough. However pretending that 60fps content is the norm, and that does extrapolate to the majority usecase, and remember we are talking about more then just yourself, I believe that was made explicitly clear given the context, (I am explicitly not bringing up compatibility because that was a personal thing, which is fair,) you can easily get greater then 1080p60 on software encoding when you bump the presets.

You're the one who set the 1080p60 bar. Apparently your memory is worse than mine at a significantly younger age. You should have that checked.

Yes they are less efficient, However they are still more efficient then libx264 given acceptable qualities people will typically watch content on (IE. VOD like netflix/youtube).

320p used to be acceptable for video but it was still objectively terrible. And so is the encoding quality of every streaming service I've watched compared to what you can achieve from local storage. But we put up with it because there isn't anything good available to those of us who want to watch video from a source that isn't going to get arrested.

I understand if perhaps you have a slow/outdated processor that these may not be true to you, however it most certainly is true for content distributors, people in both high quality, and low quality streaming scenarios. So the claim that it's "Useless engineering for geeks" as which was originally claimed, or "Nearly useless" is devoid of any semblance to reality.

Ryzen 9 3900X on this box. Not exactly new but far from slow. Averages 40-50fps, pegging 12 cores with 24 threads, doing a 1080p h265 encode of simply respectable quality, not by any means archival quality. H264 encoding with apples to apples settings as near as is possible? Between a hundred and thirty and a hundred and fifty frames per second. So, yeah, it's pretty damned useless to anyone who would be inconvenienced by having to walk away from their workstation or gaming box for an hour to encode an hour and change of video when it could be done in twenty minutes or so.

[TheMightyBuzzard]

First of all, how does me describing the overall atmosphere on these forums make me or this message toxic? People here are extremely hostile, dismissive and insulting against everything non-open source or patented even despite the fact that the AV1 codec is based on a metric ton of algorithms which were born as patented but then found themselves in the public domain. Instead of attacking the legal system, your fellow open source lovers don't mince words attacking people who created unique very important and useful stuff.

Secondly, how does MPEG abuse patents exactly? Could you elaborate on that? I presume everything they do is strictly legal in the US and other countries which recognize patents or patent laws. Abuse is a very strong word, dude.

Lastly, I'm not from the US, so I don't understand this reference, "I have wanted to teach the Secret Neckshake to over the years". What did you mean?

Don't try to be righteous, be logical and rational. By blaming me for being toxic you are neither logical nor rational, you're emotional. Nothing in my message was "toxic", "toxic" is your feeling/impression and nothing that I said or implied was intended to be so.

Oh come on. Trying to troll me? Teach your grandma to suck eggs. You know as well as I do that "toxic" and all the rest of the insults you've spewed are exactly that, insults. So we're done here. You really need to practice if you're going to play with experienced trolls; you just look sad right now.

[Serafean]

AV1 is already more computationally expensive than VVC despite offering a worse compression ratio.

You can actually thank MPEG-LA/h.265 for that. AV1 had to forego some easy and efficient techniques precisely because they might be patented.

H.266 has unfortunately been accepted into the DVB-T2 standard, so it's here to stay already.
Yes, I'll chose Libre over better every single time.

[OneTimeShot]

Don't try to be righteous, be logical and rational. By blaming me for being toxic you are neither logical nor rational, you're emotional. Nothing in my message was "toxic", "toxic" is your feeling/impression and nothing that I said or implied was intended to be so.

I don't quite know how to break this to you, but over the years I've assumed that you are toxic to the point of some kind of possible psychological issue with communication/interpersonal relations.

There is still a possibility that you come here for fun to troll and to have a laugh, though. Which is fine if it is deliberate.

VVC is a good codec, Nvidia make good graphics cards. Heck... MacOS is nicer than Gnome. There isn't really anything technically wrong with your positions...

[avis]

Oh come on. Trying to troll me? Teach your grandma to suck eggs. You know as well as I do that "toxic" and all the rest of the insults you've spewed are exactly that, insults. So we're done here. You really need to practice if you're going to play with experienced trolls; you just look sad right now.

I don't see anything I could reply to. All I see is vapid accusations, righteousness and zealotry.

Let me remind you, this is a topic about an OPEN SOURCE VVC ENCODER for fuck's sake. Open Source mind you. VVC is completely FREE for personal use MIND YOU. You can use it ALL YOU WANT.

Not a single message in the topic about the news piece itself.

Have a nice day and thank you for leaving the conversation. You had absolutely nothing ontopic to say anyway.

[avis]

You can actually thank MPEG-LA/h.265 for that. AV1 had to forego some easy and efficient techniques precisely because they might be patented.

H.266 has unfortunately been accepted into the DVB-T2 standard, so it's here to stay already.
Yes, I'll chose Libre over better every single time.

Yes, and that makes VVC very exciting for home users. Easier/faster to encode, higher compression ratio for the same quality. Easier to decode on devices lacking a HW decode. AV1 is still barely supported in HW, considering over 5 billion mobile users and 2 billion PCs. You see the whole patent situation is for large companies (either hardware or software) while VVC is completely free for personal use. AFAIK it's even free if you distribute your videos to let's say fewer than 10K people or so. I don't remember the exact numbers.

So, the codec is kinda free, there are excellent free open source encoders and decoders, but somehow MPEG-LA is still evil for wanting to profit off their heavy investment into it.

[avis]

I don't quite know how to break this to you, but over the years I've assumed that you are toxic to the point of some kind of possible psychological issue with communication/interpersonal relations.

There is still a possibility that you come here for fun to troll and to have a laugh, though. Which is fine if it is deliberate.

VVC is a good codec, Nvidia make good graphics cards. Heck... MacOS is nicer than Gnome. There isn't really anything technically wrong with your positions...

VVC is an excellent codec indeed which has been proven beyond reasonable doubt and it leaves AV1 in the dust. Aside from being patented and requiring licensing fees for certain entities, not end users. Correct. Secondly AV1 was created by Google for itself not for end users. They have YouTube and they wanted to avoid licensing H.265/H.266. AV1 has been panned by multiple experts and OEMs for being computationally expensive and requiring a shit ton of transistors to be implemented in HW which is why despite being standardized FIVE years ago, the vast majority of smartphones still do not have a HW decoder for it and there's just one which supports HW encoding, the Pixel 8 series. The industry has made it abundantly clear that in terms of implementation AV1 is an abject failure. It is hugely expensive to implement. What applications support AV1 encoding now? I don't know any outside encoding tools and OBS Studio. That's how much adopted AV1 is. Again an abject failure.

NVIDIA does make good GPUs but that doesn't mean they are properly priced (in the absence of competition, purely AMD's fault or in the presence of duopoly, again, AMD's fault) or they offer fully open source drivers (irrelevant for 99% of people using them). The kernel module was open sourced almost two years ago. Meanwhile neither AMD, nor Intel have open source Windows drivers. And both companies have separate teams developing open and closed source drivers: a massive expense which Open Source lovers couldn't care less about. Which results in 1) open source specific bugs 2) major additional expenses 3) slow development pace. I've been using open source AMD drivers for over a year and I've had more issues with them than with the proprietary NVIDIA crap for the past 20 years. NVIDIA closed source drivers have not been perfect but they have been excellent and highly reliable overall.

MacOS, I've no clue. I used it once for a single day seven years ago or so. I absolutely hated font antialiasing in the OS which was beyond horrible and still is but that's kinda resolved since all modern Apple devices are high DPI.

You see, everything is nuanced, it's shades of grey, not black and white. Open Source fans here and you included outright reject everything not open/free and that's just sad. Wake me up when there's triple A open source games on the market. Never has been the case, most likely will never become reality. People want to get paid for very hard work. The Linux kernel has been you can say developed by corporations for over 20 years now. They just find it useful and you get it for free as a byproduct.

[rhadlee]

With everything that is going on in generative AI for video, I have difficulties believing that next-generation codecs like H.266 / VVC (or whatever succeeds AV1 as an open source alternative) will ever catch on. Codecs take a looong time to be universally supported. This is why old codecs like H.264 / AVC are still extremely popular, even though it is ancient by modern technology standards.

I believe that AI will be the end of codecs as we know them. Instead, videos will be compressed into some model weights and a bitstream of “prompts” that generate each frame. Netflix may have separate model weights for different genres or per show. Same for YouTube or other sites. You’d download the weights once and cache them on the player, which has some generic AI inference hardware.

[avis]

With everything that is going on in generative AI for video, I have difficulties believing that next-generation codecs like H.266 / VVC (or whatever succeeds AV1 as an open source alternative) will ever catch on. Codecs take a looong time to be universally supported. This is why old codecs like H.264 / AVC are still extremely popular, even though it is ancient by modern technology standards.

I believe that AI will be the end of codecs as we know them. Instead, videos will be compressed into some model weights and a bitstream of “prompts” that generate each frame. Netflix may have separate model weights for different genres or per show. Same for YouTube or other sites. You’d download the weights once and cache them on the player, which has some generic AI inference hardware.

AV2/H.267 have been in development for quite some time now and neither uses AI.

AI indeed can help encoding by intelligently dividing the source image into parts for which it instructs the encoder to use more or less bits. The same applies to frames: some frames may receive more bits, some fewer. That's indeed has been researched a lot and is now widely used.

E.g. check this https://cloudinary.com/guides/ai/har...complete-guide