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GNOME 40 Released With Many Improvements

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Volta View Post
    Boxes are great, because they're very easy to set up and everything works out of the box with Fedora guest. Weather and Maps are quite simple and development is rather complete, so I doubt there's much of 'waste of efforts' involved.
    I'd like to know the market share of those products compared to the existing alternatives.
    Like Boxes vs VMware and VirtualBox, Maps vs Google Maps, etc.
    Using platform specific software is bad even if it's free software.

    Originally posted by Volta View Post
    Canonical ideas are usually quite bad. For example they provide windows buttons, but without bottom panel they're mostly useless (you still have to use activities view). snaps, upstart are another bad examples.
    Window buttons are used by:
    • Windows
    • Mac os
    • Ubuntu and derivatives
    • Kde
    • Cinnamon
    • Xfce
    • Mate
    • Budgie
    • DDE
    • Lxqt
    • Lxde
    • Pixel
    • TDE
    I'd say that people consider them useful.
    Apparently users can also understand that if the taskbar is on the side the minimize button will minimize to the side instead of the bottom...



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    • #92
      Originally posted by JackLilhammers View Post
      I'd like to know the market share of those products compared to the existing alternatives.
      Like Boxes vs VMware and VirtualBox, Maps vs Google Maps, etc.
      Using platform specific software is bad even if it's free software.
      Proprietary solutions don't count for obvious reasons. KVM is better for Linux guests and Boxes are using it. I prefer OpenStreetMap over Google and there's no such application on Linux afaik.

      Window buttons are used by:

      Apparently users can also understand that if the taskbar is on the side the minimize button will minimize to the side instead of the bottom...
      Yes, I forgot it's not hidden in Activities.

      Mez'

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Volta View Post
        Proprietary solutions don't count for obvious reasons. KVM is better for Linux guests and Boxes are using it. I prefer OpenStreetMap over Google and there's no such application on Linux afaik.
        https://marble.kde.org

        Versatile, yet easy to use. Use Marble similar to a desktop globe; pan around and measure distances. At closer scale it becomes a world atlas, while OpenStreetMap takes you to street level. Search for places of interest, view Wikipedia articles, create routes by drag and drop and so much more.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by JackLilhammers View Post
          I'd say that depends on the mission of a project.
          If said project aims to be widely adopted I think that it should strive to fit more than one workflow
          I don't fully agree. It is my (professional) experience that projects which try to encompass everything are becoming 'jack of all traits and master of none'.
          I don't want to solve all my problems with Gnome, or KDE or whatever. Lots of things I don't even need a GUI because it would be in the way. Other I only need a web-frontend. Some, like mine Media server. Where Kodi is essentially the interaction layer and the rest are full-screen browser, application, game and emulator windows. All knit together with something invisible, minimalistic but powerful like Openbox. Gnome would only get in the way here.

          Originally posted by JackLilhammers View Post
          I like their goals, but I can't stand their ways.
          Also, IMHO user feedback should be the primary driver of every project.
          Then you misunderstand their goals, there are other desktops better for you. If user feedback should be the driver the conclusion would always be the same. If not, then the listening is not good/careful enough. Or do you dismiss users because their ideas are not fitting your vision? If not I get visions of the Homermobile.

          Originally posted by JackLilhammers View Post
          By the way, Gnome already has an amazing tool to gather user feedback without even asking: extesions.
          I'm actually agreeing, popular extensions should be studied to see how to cater to the users of it. I don't agree to copy them always one on one. For example, with Gnome40 I will ditch most of my extensions, and they solved it in a way I never thought of.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Volta View Post
            Proprietary solutions don't count for obvious reasons. KVM is better for Linux guests and Boxes are using it. I prefer OpenStreetMap over Google and there's no such application on Linux afaik.
            I'd say that proprietary solutions count, for obvious reasons.
            If we don't count proprietary solutions Linux runs on 99% of the desktops...

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            • #96
              Originally posted by markus40 View Post
              I don't fully agree. It is my (professional) experience that projects which try to encompass everything are becoming 'jack of all traits and master of none'.
              I agree, but nobody is asking that from Gnome (or Kde).
              Just a little more configurability out of the box, without having to install Tweaks and some extensions as the first thing.

              Originally posted by markus40 View Post
              Then you misunderstand their goals, there are other desktops better for you.
              I don't think I have and Gnome is the default desktop of all major distributions.
              If it's not meant for me, what am I supposed to use?
              This attitude is not very welcoming, isn't it?

              Originally posted by markus40 View Post
              I'm actually agreeing, popular extensions should be studied to see how to cater to the users of it. I don't agree to copy them always one on one. For example, with Gnome40 I will ditch most of my extensions, and they solved it in a way I never thought of.
              Well, "always" is a bit of a strong word, but there could be a nice middle ground.
              Not counting Mint, we can agree that Ubuntu is the go-to distribution for the average user.
              Gnome should ship at the very least the same set of modifications made by Ubuntu:
              • Desktop icons. Actually DING, not the broken version shipped by Ubuntu
              • System tray. They don't like the metaphor? Who cares, users do
              • Window buttons
              • Light-Dark switcher
              • Set the position of the dock

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              • #97
                Originally posted by JackLilhammers View Post
                I'd say that proprietary solutions count, for obvious reasons.
                If we don't count proprietary solutions Linux runs on 99% of the desktops...
                We're talking about desktop environments. I doubt Gnome or KDE will ship Google Earth etc. It's always good to have Open Source equivalents. Normally, I wouldn't use any proprietary application on my PC, but with flatpaks they're more accessible.
                Last edited by Volta; 26 March 2021, 01:28 PM.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by reba View Post
                  Yes, you're right. The same about Gnome Maps, but I was thinking about applications 'not invented here' (third party ones, not from KDE or Gnome).

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by JackLilhammers View Post
                    I agree, but nobody is asking that from Gnome (or KDE).
                    Just a little more configurability out of the box, without having to install Tweaks and some extensions as the first thing.
                    That is the problem isn't. The little things for you are not the little things for me, my little things are not the little things for someone else. At the end we have little things sprouting up everywhere. If they are all included, we get the all singing and dancing desktop KDE is. Nothing wrong with that. But we already have the all singing and dancing KDE. Why do you want a second all singing and dancing KDE clone? However, I do like to see a stable API for extensions, but not enough to switch to anything else.

                    Originally posted by JackLilhammers View Post
                    I don't think I have and Gnome is the default desktop of all major distributions.
                    If it's not meant for me, what am I supposed to use?
                    This attitude is not very welcoming, isn't it?
                    Well, Windows is the default and only option from Microsoft. MacOS is the default and only option for Apple hardware. I don't see them catering to every whim of their users.
                    Count yourself lucky you can pick and choose more than the default in Linux. Some distributions (SUSE) let you even choose before installing, others have something like spins. So, go and pick the one who take your requests seriously, by the way, which desktop are we talking about in this case?

                    Originally posted by JackLilhammers View Post
                    Well, "always" is a bit of a strong word, but there could be a nice middle ground.
                    Not counting Mint, we can agree that Ubuntu is the go-to distribution for the average user.
                    Gnome should ship at the very least the same set of modifications made by Ubuntu:
                    Why? Maybe I don't like the Ubuntu additions and like my Gnome more vanilla which I can enhance myself. Something like Android on Samsung against Android on Nokia. I had two extensions I liked, DashtoDock and WorkspacetoDock. But since Gnome40 I like the new 'Overview' much better, they solve it for me. Really, the things you want are the standard Windows paradigma: Desktop Icons, panel, activities. I bet the double pane file browser is also one of them. Nothing wrong with that, but why do you want Gnome if almost everything else cater to your needs.
                    Last edited by markus40; 26 March 2021, 02:01 PM.

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                    • markus40

                      I'm not talking about every little detail.
                      The few things I've mentioned are not details and are not specific to Kde. Quite the contrary.
                      Every desktop has them, except Gnome.

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