GNOME 40 Released With Many Improvements

[Volta]

I'd like to know the market share of those products compared to the existing alternatives.
Like Boxes vs VMware and VirtualBox, Maps vs Google Maps, etc.
Using platform specific software is bad even if it's free software.

Proprietary solutions don't count for obvious reasons. KVM is better for Linux guests and Boxes are using it. I prefer OpenStreetMap over Google and there's no such application on Linux afaik.

Window buttons are used by:

Apparently users can also understand that if the taskbar is on the side the minimize button will minimize to the side instead of the bottom...

Yes, I forgot it's not hidden in Activities.

Mez'

[reba]

Proprietary solutions don't count for obvious reasons. KVM is better for Linux guests and Boxes are using it. I prefer OpenStreetMap over Google and there's no such application on Linux afaik.

https://marble.kde.org

Versatile, yet easy to use. Use Marble similar to a desktop globe; pan around and measure distances. At closer scale it becomes a world atlas, while OpenStreetMap takes you to street level. Search for places of interest, view Wikipedia articles, create routes by drag and drop and so much more.

[markus40]

I'd say that depends on the mission of a project.
If said project aims to be widely adopted I think that it should strive to fit more than one workflow

I don't fully agree. It is my (professional) experience that projects which try to encompass everything are becoming 'jack of all traits and master of none'.
I don't want to solve all my problems with Gnome, or KDE or whatever. Lots of things I don't even need a GUI because it would be in the way. Other I only need a web-frontend. Some, like mine Media server. Where Kodi is essentially the interaction layer and the rest are full-screen browser, application, game and emulator windows. All knit together with something invisible, minimalistic but powerful like Openbox. Gnome would only get in the way here.

I like their goals, but I can't stand their ways.
Also, IMHO user feedback should be the primary driver of every project.

Then you misunderstand their goals, there are other desktops better for you. If user feedback should be the driver the conclusion would always be the same. If not, then the listening is not good/careful enough. Or do you dismiss users because their ideas are not fitting your vision? If not I get visions of the Homermobile.

By the way, Gnome already has an amazing tool to gather user feedback without even asking: extesions.

I'm actually agreeing, popular extensions should be studied to see how to cater to the users of it. I don't agree to copy them always one on one. For example, with Gnome40 I will ditch most of my extensions, and they solved it in a way I never thought of.

[JackLilhammers]

Proprietary solutions don't count for obvious reasons. KVM is better for Linux guests and Boxes are using it. I prefer OpenStreetMap over Google and there's no such application on Linux afaik.

I'd say that proprietary solutions count, for obvious reasons.
If we don't count proprietary solutions Linux runs on 99% of the desktops...

[JackLilhammers]

I don't fully agree. It is my (professional) experience that projects which try to encompass everything are becoming 'jack of all traits and master of none'.

I agree, but nobody is asking that from Gnome (or Kde).
Just a little more configurability out of the box, without having to install Tweaks and some extensions as the first thing.

Then you misunderstand their goals, there are other desktops better for you.

I don't think I have and Gnome is the default desktop of all major distributions.
If it's not meant for me, what am I supposed to use?
This attitude is not very welcoming, isn't it?

I'm actually agreeing, popular extensions should be studied to see how to cater to the users of it. I don't agree to copy them always one on one. For example, with Gnome40 I will ditch most of my extensions, and they solved it in a way I never thought of.

Well, "always" is a bit of a strong word, but there could be a nice middle ground.
Not counting Mint, we can agree that Ubuntu is the go-to distribution for the average user.
Gnome should ship at the very least the same set of modifications made by Ubuntu:

• Desktop icons. Actually DING, not the broken version shipped by Ubuntu
• System tray. They don't like the metaphor? Who cares, users do
• Window buttons
• Light-Dark switcher
• Set the position of the dock

[Volta]

I'd say that proprietary solutions count, for obvious reasons.
If we don't count proprietary solutions Linux runs on 99% of the desktops...

We're talking about desktop environments. I doubt Gnome or KDE will ship Google Earth etc. It's always good to have Open Source equivalents. Normally, I wouldn't use any proprietary application on my PC, but with flatpaks they're more accessible.

[Volta]

https://marble.kde.org

Yes, you're right. The same about Gnome Maps, but I was thinking about applications 'not invented here' (third party ones, not from KDE or Gnome).

[markus40]

I agree, but nobody is asking that from Gnome (or KDE).
Just a little more configurability out of the box, without having to install Tweaks and some extensions as the first thing.

That is the problem isn't. The little things for you are not the little things for me, my little things are not the little things for someone else. At the end we have little things sprouting up everywhere. If they are all included, we get the all singing and dancing desktop KDE is. Nothing wrong with that. But we already have the all singing and dancing KDE. Why do you want a second all singing and dancing KDE clone? However, I do like to see a stable API for extensions, but not enough to switch to anything else.

I don't think I have and Gnome is the default desktop of all major distributions.
If it's not meant for me, what am I supposed to use?
This attitude is not very welcoming, isn't it?

Well, Windows is the default and only option from Microsoft. MacOS is the default and only option for Apple hardware. I don't see them catering to every whim of their users.
Count yourself lucky you can pick and choose more than the default in Linux. Some distributions (SUSE) let you even choose before installing, others have something like spins. So, go and pick the one who take your requests seriously, by the way, which desktop are we talking about in this case?

Well, "always" is a bit of a strong word, but there could be a nice middle ground.
Not counting Mint, we can agree that Ubuntu is the go-to distribution for the average user.
Gnome should ship at the very least the same set of modifications made by Ubuntu:

Why? Maybe I don't like the Ubuntu additions and like my Gnome more vanilla which I can enhance myself. Something like Android on Samsung against Android on Nokia. I had two extensions I liked, DashtoDock and WorkspacetoDock. But since Gnome40 I like the new 'Overview' much better, they solve it for me. Really, the things you want are the standard Windows paradigma: Desktop Icons, panel, activities. I bet the double pane file browser is also one of them. Nothing wrong with that, but why do you want Gnome if almost everything else cater to your needs.

[JackLilhammers]

markus40

I'm not talking about every little detail.
The few things I've mentioned are not details and are not specific to Kde. Quite the contrary.
Every desktop has them, except Gnome.

[markus40]

markus40
I'm not talking about every little detail.
The few things I've mentioned are not details and are not specific to KDE. Quite the contrary.
Every desktop has them, except Gnome.

Sorry, I was maybe a little to pedantic in my response to you. Your requests are very reasonable and, indeed they are almost universal.

All I can say is I used Gnome 1.x and Gnome 2.x from start to end, I used Gnome 3 from the beginning. I didn't need to adjust to no activity icons, the window handling and no desktop icons. I used plank under Xorg and switched to Wayland as soon as I found DashtoDock and switched to vertical layout a few years ago, also no adjustment it felt right. Now I ditch DashtoDock because of the new overview. I guess I just go with the flow and like it. Maybe because I'm used to adapting to lots of different desktops. I've a work MacBook, a work Lenovo laptop with Windows 10, I used to use many Unix desktops in the past. Openlook, CDE, Iris. Even under the command-line I have to adapt to the quirks of putty, terminal under macOS nowadays etc.

It is not that I don't understand the frustration of missing things. I have that too when I'm not on Linux. I just don't feel it under Gnome.