Mozilla Has A New CEO To Focus On The Future

[Quackdoc]

https://osseu2023.sched.com/event/1OGkc/servo-web-rendering-engine-reboot-manuel-rego-igalia?iframe=no&w=100%&sidebar=yes&bg=no

In that video it sounds like they want to target embedded exactly because it only requires a subset of a full fledged browser.

But if I'm proven wrong, all the better.

Ok. Maybe I was a bit misleading. There are features that probably aren't needed and would be a low priority, However the vast majority of website stuff, is needed for embedded use too, Image and video codec support, Webgpu/wgpu, CSS2/3, Gamepad handling etc. This is all still needed for embedded use cases just as they are on desktop, the overlap is massive.

But also, a fully fledged browser needs a lot more then just a web engine. You need UI, multiple websites, Ways of interacting with said websites using various extensions etc. but to be a web engine itself, needs less. However nothing is stopping the community from contributing these features to servo. Especially considering the main stuff will already be there. It's actually a fairly optimistic scenario right now.

But to give an example of "embedded use" especially with tauri, you can literally just load a site into tauri and call it good https://github.com/japandotorg/Lemon...in/src/main.rs . Embedded use case really is just "desktop website support" minus some fancy stuff.

Tauri is already a electron alternative, but Firefox use some servo project components, like webrender, is possible to more components can be used

tauri isn't really an electron alternative yet. it does provide a wrapper around system webviews, but until it provides it's own webengine it's simply a no go. for a lot of users. You need the consistency of a single webengine. For instance, i've tested making at least 2 apps that completely break on linux because it uses webkit. This is explicitly why tauri + servo recently got good funding.

[mulenmar]

Great. Now bring back the Servo team to Mozilla and finally start making Firefox more performant so that it'll at least be somewhat competitive to Chromium's performance. Only then I'll consider using Firefox again.

Okay, sorry but I have no idea what you're talking about here. I run Firefox on a Haswell era Intel CPU, a Bulldozer-era AMD A12-PRO APU, and another AMD APU from only slightly before that (FX-8800p). My parent has an Athlon X2 dual-core.

We've had zero problems with Firefox performance that wasn't due to Wifi signal strength or the most awful web dev nonsense I've ever seen -- and cleared up entirely by using various privacy plugins. Several of which can no longer fully function, because of the conflict of interest the monopoly you're supporting has.

What real-life, not-synthetic-benchmarking, performance problems are there specific to Firefox? Even in a PGO build?

Also, Servo was finished. It's called Firefox now.

[Anux]

I don't even need a full fledged browser, everything that has a decent ad filter, video support and can display all websites would be fine by me, I can always use another browser if I need special functionality for some rare things. The less the better.

[mulenmar]

But than you either rich or wouldn't wast your money on smart pumps.

What do you need a smart pump for? Does it have a social media account were it compares your throughput in liters to other mothers, or even cows? Automatic milk diary?

It's really sad women have to work while having a baby. But since it's mostly a thing in democracies, it's probably what most people want.

Did you ever stop and think that maybe, just maybe, women are working while they have a baby because

A) They get some time away from the screaming little shitgoblin... and the baby they made with him

B) They can't afford to stay home if they even want to, because wages have been depressed since the 60s and Reagan dismantled the welfare system -- which a certain party has made half their entire platform about keeping gone

C) Said party illegally stuffed the Supreme Court with liars so they could successfully force women to carry to term offspring they can't afford to, or weren't ready for

D) Because women are human beings with every right to decide what the hell they want to do with their lives?

Breast pumps scare y'all? Gotta make jokes about stealing breast milk to put in your coffee without her consent? Tough titty, stop having sex with people who have a uterus and never leave your mom's basement, then. They're part of life.

As for the very real focus issues Mozilla has had over the last 15 years and the resulting loss of market share that resulted... that's a thing that happened, yes. Don't like it? Go use and develop on a fork, get it popular enough to be checked over and fixed for security issues, overtake Firefox. Put your work where your fingers are, or keep quiet.

(But watch all the incels and misogynists get Big Triggered Mad and report me for hurting their feelings further than they were when first called out as incels and misogynists. This is some of the reason why I stopped engaging with the forums for so long. )

[Quackdoc]

Okay, sorry but I have no idea what you're talking about here. I run Firefox on a Haswell era Intel CPU, a Bulldozer-era AMD A12-PRO APU, and another AMD APU from only slightly before that (FX-8800p). My parent has an Athlon X2 dual-core.

We've had zero problems with Firefox performance that wasn't due to Wifi signal strength or the most awful web dev nonsense I've ever seen -- and cleared up entirely by using various privacy plugins. Several of which can no longer fully function, because of the conflict of interest the monopoly you're supporting has.

Firefox has significantly worse gpu performance then chromium does, and has a higher battery impact. In terms of gpu efficiency, Firefox vs chromium is the difference between watching a 1080p video just barely work, and watching a 1440p video easily and even some 4k30 ones.

What real-life, not-synthetic-benchmarking, performance problems are there specific to Firefox? Even in a PGO build?

Also, Servo was finished. It's called Firefox now.

No it wasn't finished. It was canned early, Mozilla was making servo to be a good embeddable engine. Samsung collaborated with mozilla to make servo a proper embeddable engine, It was also used (or going to be used?) in firefox reality and webxr stuff. Servo had real plans for it that were canned, it wasn't just some tech playground

[Shtirlic]

While I agree with most of what you wrote here, there is one thing that surprise me:
Now in 2024 there is only one web browser on Linux that supports Video Hardware Decoding on AMD and Wayland and it is Firefox, prove me wrong. (https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=244031&p=39)

[Quackdoc]

While I agree with most of what you wrote here, there is one thing that surprise me:
Now in 2024 there is only one web browser on Linux that supports Video Hardware Decoding on AMD and Wayland and it is Firefox, prove me wrong. (https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=244031&p=39)

chrome is getting hwdec support too but iirc it's waiting on a mesa PR to land. IIRC it was this one https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/...requests/26165

EDIT: Ah that seems to have been tested, can't test right now then since I use intel now,

[TemplarGR]

Did you ever stop and think that maybe, just maybe, women are working while they have a baby because

A) They get some time away from the screaming little shitgoblin... and the baby they made with him

B) They can't afford to stay home if they even want to, because wages have been depressed since the 60s and Reagan dismantled the welfare system -- which a certain party has made half their entire platform about keeping gone

C) Said party illegally stuffed the Supreme Court with liars so they could successfully force women to carry to term offspring they can't afford to, or weren't ready for

D) Because women are human beings with every right to decide what the hell they want to do with their lives?

Breast pumps scare y'all? Gotta make jokes about stealing breast milk to put in your coffee without her consent? Tough titty, stop having sex with people who have a uterus and never leave your mom's basement, then. They're part of life.

As for the very real focus issues Mozilla has had over the last 15 years and the resulting loss of market share that resulted... that's a thing that happened, yes. Don't like it? Go use and develop on a fork, get it popular enough to be checked over and fixed for security issues, overtake Firefox. Put your work where your fingers are, or keep quiet.

(But watch all the incels and misogynists get Big Triggered Mad and report me for hurting their feelings further than they were when first called out as incels and misogynists. This is some of the reason why I stopped engaging with the forums for so long. )

Oh look, we have a misandrist communist here, calling us names and distorting the truth....

People who want abortions banned are not hating women, they just love babies. And more than half of those aborted were girls.... It is really funny how evil communists and other left wingers invert the truth and portray people who don't want innocent babies killed as "haters". If women don't want babies, they should be very careful with getting pregnant, butchering the babies inside their bellies is not contraception.... You too were inside your mothers' bellies once, but you weren't aborted, and you never asked your parents if you were a nuicance or they could afford you either...

Women are human beings, but the babies are human beings too and:

a) They are far more innocent than their mothers and fathers, being unborn they are uncorrupt yet, they deserve a chance

b) Babies are weak and incapable of defending themselves and voicing their will to live. If they could talk, they would certainly object to being murdered by an abortion. No one wants to die. And since we are good and honest humans, we have to defend the weak and innocent from the murderous Jezebels who think being free humans means freedom to murder other humans, even inside their bellies

c) It is also funny that the vast majority of the left wingers who love abortions and say "my body my choice", are the same people who told me i couldn't go to work or to any other public place during the "covid 19 pandemic" because i decided that "my body my choice" and didn't get an experimental vaccine. I didn't kill anyone though.... Funny how it is this kind of people who think they can dictate what others do with their own bodies, but when it comes to killing babies then they want absolute freedom...

[Artim]

I don't even need a full fledged browser, everything that has a decent ad filter, video support and can display all websites would be fine by me, I can always use another browser if I need special functionality for some rare things. The less the better.

As long as you are on Android, try RethinkDNS. Best system wide ad blocker I've seen so far.

[krzyzowiec]

What?

It's much better to be awake than asleep, and much better to be a social justice warrior than a social injustice one.

I mean seriously, how amazing it is that so many men are threatened by women who have jobs. It's like the old days when men used to say that women can't drive, when they drive equally well. When someone gets in a lot of accidents, or is bad at their job, it has nothing to with their sex or race or ethnicity. It's just that they're human, and some individuals are better at some things and worse at others.

Sheesh.

No man is threatened by any woman. It's just that emotions don't really have a place in business, and women, being emotional creatures, make the workplace environment a disaster. The amount of fighting, bitterness, and backstabbing that occurs is unbelievable. The focus shifts from the meritocratic nature of engineering excellence to feel good platitudes about how you are making the world better or "fighting injustice" (which is never fully enumerated or quantified, so no progress can actually be measured). Everyone must be on their toes, concerned with accusations of sexual harassment, hurt feelings from insensitive comments, or whining as a result of their victimhood/identity crisis. Work is hard enough as it is without introducing these elements into the equation.