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  • Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    Censorship of what?

    https://youtu.be/80Vz7tZLuBI
    Many of my clients are private hospitals and a couple of their best doctors / professors (some global experts) have had YT silence their objective videos. Of course you would ask "what" - it's gone cause it was censored. Now I have absolutely NO DOUBT that these doctors and experts in their fields know more than any of us here on Phoronix about viruses, pandemics or even vaccines.

    They also would most certainly not match this description
    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    "The pro-covid vaxers don't appreciate people spewing nonsense"
    Therefore your comment is a great attempt at ignorant mockery, much like mentioning flat Earthers and moon landing deniers. How about we just stick to actual arguments being presented.

    I literally just looked up one of the videos I wanted to share from one of my clients "This video has been removed for violating YouTube's Terms of Service." This was after he was interviewed on radio. He even welcomed other experts to question his findings. Amazing how they are the ones welcoming criticism and objectivity.

    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    I don't know about you, but most people would like it if lockdowns, mask-wearing, and travel bans would end.
    Agreed. Low risk people aren't being NOBLE by staying at home they are being wreckless and ruining the economy.

    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    pseudoscience and fearmongering. That is unethical.
    Again I agree, pseudoscience from media and phoronix experts. "fearmongering" from governments and media trying to sell click bait. "That is unethical." Agreed.

    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    vs believing we're being microchipped or being targeted by 5G microwaves.
    I must have missed this in this thread can you recall who posted it?

    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    I'm not aware of any countries that have citizens pay for the vaccine.
    Someone always pays, no free breakfast. The cost in some cases is absorbed by private medical schemes / medicaid. Cash wise, I have been quoted between 5-30$ per shot depending on which vaccine I want. My staff are in multiple countries, some not 1st world.

    Again I don't want to fight at all, I just find it very disconcerting that the people I am talking about being censored are anything but arm chair experts who believe all the wacky conspiracies you mentioned. By insinuating they believe that or are that calibre of person is not dissimilar to why the MSM has lost so much credibility.
    Last edited by dfyt; 14 June 2021, 03:34 PM.

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    • Originally posted by dfyt View Post
      Many of my clients are private hospitals and a couple of their best doctors / professors (some global experts) have had YT silence their objective videos. Of course you would ask "what" - it's gone cause it was censored. Now I have absolutely NO DOUBT that these doctors and experts in their fields know more than any of us here on Phoronix about viruses, pandemics or even vaccines.
      That still doesn't answer my question. I don't know what it is that's being censored.
      I literally just looked up one of the videos I wanted to share from one of my clients "This video has been removed for violating YouTube's Terms of Service." This was after he was interviewed on radio. He even welcomed other experts to question his findings. Amazing how they are the ones welcoming criticism and objectivity.
      Still don't know who it is you're talking about, what he found, the method he found it, etc.
      Agreed. Low risk people aren't being NOBLE by staying at home they are being wreckless and ruining the economy.
      Reckless is a matter of perspective. It is also reckless to knowingly risk spreading infection.
      Again I agree, pseudoscience from media and phoronix experts. "fearmongering" from governments and media trying to sell click bait. "That is unethical." Agreed.
      Do you realize the hypocrisy in what you're saying? "MSM and governments are the ones who are unethical because I choose not to favor the vaccines". "This small group that aligns with my political beliefs isn't twisting my mind, because they share my point of view!"
      This is textbook confirmation bias. You only trust what aligns with your perspective. That's delusion. So far, every antivaxxer I've encountered refuses to look at the numbers. They refer to their own anecdotes ("Nobody I know who got covid died so therefore it isn't dangerous"), look at one set of numbers while ignoring others ("look at all these deaths caused by the vaccine!" while neglecting that the death rate of vaccinated people is lower), or use a slippery slope fallacy ("RNA can go backward and change your existing DNA!" without any proof this happens with vaccines, or, the negative side effects).
      The thing is, you don't have to trust MSM or governments. For me personally, I couldn't care less what they say, because I can come to my own conclusions based on the data and empirical evidence. The fact of the matter is, covid is real, it is highly contagious, and if the vaccine is our ticket to a semblance of normalcy, it seems rather idiotic to rip that ticket.
      I must have missed this in this thread can you recall who posted it?
      Here's one of them:
      https://www.phoronix.com/forums/foru...91#post1261891
      I understand not all anti-vaxxers go that nutty, but most of them aren't far off.
      Someone always pays, no free breakfast. The cost in some cases is absorbed by private medical schemes / medicaid. Cash wise, I have been quoted between 5-30$ per shot depending on which vaccine I want. My staff are in multiple countries, some not 1st world.
      Getting a bit tangential there... The point is, in most countries, including many 3rd world countries, citizens do not have to pay anything or be affected by insurance or medicade. However, it does make some sense how maybe you'd have to pay to vaccinate someone who is in a different country that doesn't have sufficient access.
      Again I don't want to fight at all, I just find it very disconcerting that the people I am talking about being censored are anything but arm chair experts who believe all the wacky conspiracies you mentioned. By insinuating they believe that or are that calibre of person is not dissimilar to why the MSM has lost so much credibility.
      What's to say the censored people aren't also armchair experts, compared to the experts who collect contrarian evidence?
      Someone like myself or a news reporter in MSM doesn't have to be an expert. All they have to have is evidence. There is indisputable evidence that the vaccines are proving effective, because even places (with a high % of fully vaccinated citizens) that are starting to open up again are still seeing lower infection rates. Last year, a single day of people going out on Spring Break caused hospitals to be inundated with new patients.

      EDIT:
      Here's some more interesting numbers:
      In the US, roughly 10% of the population got infected and of that 10%, about 1.8% died.
      About 52% of the population has had at least one vaccine, but 0.0017% of those who have been vaccinated ostensibly died from the vaccine.
      Let the numbers do the talking.
      Last edited by schmidtbag; 14 June 2021, 04:32 PM.

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      • Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
        EDIT:
        Here's some more interesting numbers:
        In the US, roughly 10% of the population got infected and of that 10%, about 1.8% died.
        About 52% of the population has had at least one vaccine, but 0.0017% of those who have been vaccinated ostensibly died from the vaccine.
        Let the numbers do the talking.
        That's actually part of the problem: we know the numbers are overinflated by having deaths being reported as "Covid Death" when they die from something else. Cynical me would say that's due to the government funding they get for each covid patient. The non-cynical me just thinks it's because they are overwhelmed and its easier to say everything is covid.

        dfyt makes a good point:

        if covid is really dangerous, then you don't want inflation of the danger or else people will think the issue is overblown.
        if vaccines are really safe, then you don't want to downplay any possible vaccine complications or issues so that people don't suspect covering it up.

        This is what happens when there is no public trust in the media or the government anymore.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by lyamc View Post
          That's actually part of the problem: we know the numbers are overinflated by having deaths being reported as "Covid Death" when they die from something else. Cynical me would say that's due to the government funding they get for each covid patient. The non-cynical me just thinks it's because they are overwhelmed and its easier to say everything is covid.
          There's no doubt that the covid death toll is over-inflated, but not significantly enough where we can just ignore it. I have no doubt whatsoever that the vast majority of reported covid deaths are legitimately due to covid.
          if covid is really dangerous, then you don't want inflation of the danger or else people will think the issue is overblown.
          if vaccines are really safe, then you don't want to downplay any possible vaccine complications or issues so that people don't suspect covering it up.
          What is this, April of 2020? The death rate isn't the problem. Everyone knows covid,as a disease, is relatively not that dangerous. The problem is how contagious it is, and that it continues to mutate. It doesn't take much at all to unknowingly transmit it to someone who is likely to die from it. And even if you do survive, do you want to face the symptoms of it, let alone multiple times? Because if we just carried on like nothing happened, there's a good chance that we'd be seeing people getting infected for a 2nd or maybe even a 3rd time. Isn't it annoying enough to have the common cold, strep, and the flu be a regular part of people's lives? Do you think it makes sense to add another illness that just becomes a commodity of human life indefinitely, except one that is more easily transmissible? We have the ability to prevent that.
          This is what happens when there is no public trust in the media or the government anymore.
          This is also what happens when people have the internet at their fingertips and can find any source that confirms their way of thinking. Seeing as this is a global phenomena where even opposing governments are facing the same problems, I'm inclined to think this is more severe than the antivaxxers and antimaskers make it out to be.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by lyamc View Post
            That's actually part of the problem: we know the numbers are overinflated by having deaths being reported as "Covid Death" when they die from something else. Cynical me would say that's due to the government funding they get for each covid patient. The non-cynical me just thinks it's because they are overwhelmed and its easier to say everything is covid.
            "The numbers are overinflated" is not a fact. The opposite seems to be true, according to, you know, every single research based on over-mortality. http://www.healthdata.org/special-an...ovid-19-deaths
            But I guess it is easier to trust some random posts on facebook than to check the excess mortality yourself.

            Originally posted by lyamc View Post
            dfyt makes a good point:
            if covid is really dangerous, then you don't want inflation of the danger or else people will think the issue is overblown.
            if vaccines are really safe, then you don't want to downplay any possible vaccine complications or issues so that people don't suspect covering it up.
            This is what happens when there is no public trust in the media or the government anymore.
            See above. Your whole point is irrelevant since your base hypothesis is wrong. And you don't have to trust "the media" or "the government", (or some random dude on the internet like me), we have a mostly independent and serious scientific community around the world (although they are not on the first page of facebook or google news, unfortunately).
            But if you want my opinion (or not, suit yourself), covid is not the new black plague, it is still quite dangerous. Basically all my family works in hospitals and they have seen it with their own eyes (yes the hospitals they worked in were full, yes there were many more deaths in 2020 than in 2019, as I said, easy to check).
            And I still don't get why people are so afraid of vaccines, be it with a "new" technology (mRNA vaccine is nothing new, first tests were hold in .... 1990, 30 years ago!).
            Vaccines literally saved hundreds of millions of people other the years, and it only killed thousands.
            In summary, stop trusting random dudes on the internet, stop trusting random youtube videos and some random posts on facebook. Stop listening to people, check the data. Find multiple and independent sources, compare between countries. And then maybe we will stop speaking about non issue and focus on the real problems of the world.

            Comment


            • The neutral source should have both sides in there so no one has to look elsewhere. The problem is that isn’t happening anymore because financially it is better to post propaganda-style articles to drive clicks and subscriber counts

              Comment


              • Originally posted by lyamc View Post
                The neutral source should have both sides in there so no one has to look elsewhere. The problem is that isn’t happening anymore because financially it is better to post propaganda-style articles to drive clicks and subscriber counts
                What are you talking about? The CDC reports on deaths caused by covid and the vaccine. Again, just focus on the numbers.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                  What are you talking about? The CDC reports on deaths caused by covid and the vaccine. Again, just focus on the numbers.
                  Talking about news sources

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                    Do you think it makes sense to add another illness that just becomes a commodity of human life indefinitely, except one that is more easily transmissible? We have the ability to prevent that.
                    I'm just very skeptical that we can get rid of this eventually. We will not get enough people immunized to catch up with the mutations that are already existing. I think the best outcome we can hope for is that we have a similar situation to the common cold or flu, where your immunity may still be somewhat recognizing the virus as it constantly changes and that just makes another common cold virus out of it.

                    Correct me if I'm wrong and there is still a chance to prevent this, but I don't see how.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ZeroPointEnergy View Post
                      I'm just very skeptical that we can get rid of this eventually. We will not get enough people immunized to catch up with the mutations that are already existing.
                      The only reason to be skeptical is because of how many people refuse to cooperate. As I've said many times, this will all be in vain if the virus gets the chance to mutate to a point where the vaccines fail. But there have been instances in the past of diseases that have been entirely eradicated thanks to global efforts, such as smallpox and rinderpest. And guess what - vaccines played a big role in those. There are other diseases that are so close on their way to extinction that the only reason they still exist is because nobody gives enough attention to impoverished countries. These would be diseases like polio and leprosy (yup, lepers still exist). And then there are diseases where we have the power to eradicate but for whatever reason nobody cares to do so, such as syphilis and measles (which BTW, is making a comeback because of anti-vaxxers).
                      I think the best outcome we can hope for is that we have a similar situation to the common cold or flu, where your immunity may still be somewhat recognizing the virus as it constantly changes and that just makes another common cold virus out of it.
                      Should enough people refuse to take vaccines, covid will become yet another culprit of the common cold. The only difference is its contagiousness.
                      Correct me if I'm wrong and there is still a chance to prevent this, but I don't see how.
                      As I say over and over again, forgot what anyone tells you, just look at the numbers. The vaccine is undoubtedly working.

                      EDIT:
                      Bear in mind too, not everyone needs to be vaccinated. After a certain percentage of the population is vaccinated, the disease doesn't have enough viable hosts to spread to. If people keep wearing masks and social distance until we get to that point, it is reasonable to suggest covid will come to an end. The tricky part is, there are enough people refusing to get vaccinated that we might not ever reach that percentage.
                      Last edited by schmidtbag; 15 June 2021, 08:04 AM.

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