Ubuntu 20.04 Gaming Performance Across Desktops, X.Org vs. Wayland

[Britoid]

Clearly you don't have a clue what I'm talking about. That's why XWayland exists. However, if you're planning to port every single application on your own or replace developers who left their projects then good luck. I don't care about some legacy mario clone not being able to run natively on Wayland. Even then it will run through XWayland. I also don't care about nvidia support from obvious reasons. Wayland is default in Fedora and overall it's good experience. Are you able to give me example of application that won't run under Wayland session or you're just exaggerating too much?

90% of the applications I use already run under Wayland, with the remaining being games and Electron. So look forward to X-on-demand.

[Volta]

90% of the applications I use already run under Wayland, with the remaining being games and Electron. So look forward to X-on-demand.

Exactly. The same here. I'm smelling some 'Wayland killed our dog' behavior'. Not sure if it's coming from nvidia, Ubuntu (the dog was named Mir) or from BSD crowd which will be stuck with X for hundred years.

[ColdDistance]

I don't use OBS so I cannot comment on the status on this but
https://feaneron.com/2019/11/21/scre...io-on-wayland/

Yes, the Flatpak version (no official) of OBS has a plugin to record from Wayland, but it crashes on Fedora 32 and on Debian Bullseye doesn't work.

[ColdDistance]

Once NVIDIA realize Wayland is ready they will most likely change their stance about it. They are a commercial company not in a business of supporting experiments.

So the reason why NVIDIA preferred to use EGLStreams instead of GBM is because it's a commercial business and Intel and AMD are NGOs. Fuck yeah.

[mppix]

Yes, the Flatpak version (no official) of OBS has a plugin to record from Wayland, but it crashes on Fedora 32 and on Debian Bullseye doesn't work.

Understood. Note that this is not the "old" plugin, this could potentially be included in OBS directly but it will likely still take a bit of time..

[blacknova]

So the reason why NVIDIA preferred to use EGLStreams instead of GBM is because it's a commercial business and Intel and AMD are NGOs. Fuck yeah.

No NVIDIA preferred to use EGLStreams because it have been implemented before GBM and for now they see no point in implementing GBM.
In reality given NVIDIA's user base size, which is large than AMD's at least, position various wayland compositor's developers to ignore that is just obtuse.

[Britoid]

No NVIDIA preferred to use EGLStreams because it have been implemented before GBM and for now they see no point in implementing GBM.
In reality given NVIDIA's user base size, which is large than AMD's at least, position various wayland compositor's developers to ignore that is just obtuse.

That's not how things work... I remember reading that Nvidia can't implement GBM because they'd have to use GPL symbols on their kernel driver.

[treba]

No one is arguing about that. What people are arguing about is that such bugs still exist in 2020. And they are not the only ones. People often report rendering issues for Firefox under Wayland and other niceties. You'd think in 12 years they could have ironed that all out but here we are.

Yes, that is sad. At the same time FF on Wayland is now pulling ahead with hardware video acceleration and fast webgl etc...

Anyhow, I'd just like to let you know that I appreciate how much you seem to care about the development - I'm afraid though the energy would be wiser spent being constructive on Wayland shortcomings (you name a few - but hey, what about helping addressing them?). All shareholders appear to be very clear about that there's no going back to X11 - we can just discuss how to continue with Wayland (or some other protocol, but AFAIK there's nothing known that can't be done with Wayland - just things that e.g. compositor devs want to be done differently and therefore don't put into Wayland protocols). Yes of course people can stick to X11 - but there's just too many things that can't be fixed or done there. So things will simply fall apart sooner or later there.

No NVIDIA preferred to use EGLStreams because it have been implemented before GBM and for now they see no point in implementing GBM.
In reality given NVIDIA's user base size, which is large than AMD's at least, position various wayland compositor's developers to ignore that is just obtuse.

The nvidia base is small compared to intel.

[blacknova]

That's not how things work... I remember reading that Nvidia can't implement GBM because they'd have to use GPL symbols on their kernel driver.

You're talking about in kernel GBM implementation which is shared by all open-source drivers and GPL, yes. But it is still have user space API, which can be implemented by NVIDIA without touching GPL symbols.

[cl333r]

Yes it is that you still have conformational bias.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu-2004-desktops&num=3

Just go and look at portal. Now we have games that the best option to play them is Wayland not X11 as well.



Total crap. Portal and other examples like it where Wayland beats Xorg are turn up more and more often now. X11 xorg on bare metal is coming the best case less than 40 percent of the time.



The X11 performance issues are not fixable they are in the base protocol so where wayland starts winning there is no coming back for X11.



Really birdie if you drop your conformational bias for one min and go and look at the numbers carefully. Other than the 2 examples that are really horrible for wayland all the other benchmarks are in wayland favour. So is X11 x.org server working fine for most people any more the answer like it or not is coming no.



Yes doing the ton of work to make Wayland work well at KDE and Gnome as resulted in Xfce and IceWM general performance advantage going by by even in X11 mode.

Performance optimisation takes a ton of work either way.

I think you forgot to tell birdie about his "conformational" bias