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Ubuntu 20.04 Gaming Performance Across Desktops, X.Org vs. Wayland

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Michael_S View Post
    Most of the core Wayland contributors are long time Xorg contributors. So this isn't a bunch of outsiders challenging the established technology, this is the leading experts with the established technology announcing that it sucks and a replacement is needed.



    But a lot of the games tested were not ported to run natively on Wayland. That's not Michael Larabel's fault or the Wayland developers' fault.
    So this comparison is completely useless. Indeed, you are simply comparing Xorg with Xorg. In a Wayland environment, the system has to invoke Xwayland which is Xorg.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by treba View Post
      The nvidia base is small compared to intel.
      Correct but Nvidia is dominant in HPC GPU compute with CUDA and their driver is very good. There, driver support is crucial. However, HPC boxes run without desktop and have with IPMI/KVM displays so no need for Nvidia GBM or EGLstreams.

      Edit: clarification
      Last edited by mppix; 28 April 2020, 09:47 PM.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by treba View Post
        The nvidia base is small compared to intel.
        This point is not made often enough. nvidia is the preference for a very small group of dedicated gamers in Linux-land.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by mppix View Post

          Correct but Nvidia is dominant in HPC GPU compute with CUDA and their driver is very good. There, driver support is crucial. However, HPC boxes run without desktop and have with IPMI/KVM displays so no need for GBM or EGLstreams.
          Nobody cares about nvidia blobs. I think Linus made it clear already.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Azrael5 View Post

            So this comparison is completely useless. Indeed, you are simply comparing Xorg with Xorg. In a Wayland environment, the system has to invoke Xwayland which is Xorg.
            Yes, but bunch of slow brainers don't understand this obvious thing. Especially the one with fowl like nickname.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by ColdDistance View Post

              Yes, the Flatpak version (no official) of OBS has a plugin to record from Wayland, but it crashes on Fedora 32 and on Debian Bullseye doesn't work.
              Btw, AFAIR, this plugin needs pipewire => 0.3. Which Debian Bullseye doesn't have yet.

              https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr...cgi?bug=955597

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              • #67
                Originally posted by treba View Post
                Yes of course people can stick to X11 - but there's just too many things that can't be fixed or done there. So things will simply fall apart sooner or later there.
                Oh, yeah, imaginary Xorg bugs and use cases for 0.1% of users out there. Wayland fans are obsessed with them for the lack of any strong arguments. Oh, Firefox finally has HW video acceleration (to be honest it does not - it's only in alpha builds). Oh, guess what, mplayer/mpv has had it for years working perfectly under Xorg. I don't give a fuck about Firefox developers not investing any time into it because HW video acceleration under Linux just sucks regardless. Under Windows people had it from day one in IE, Firefox, Chrome and all other web browser. In Linux ... well, it's VDPAU/VAAPI/what else and a lot of mess.
                Last edited by birdie; 28 April 2020, 05:23 PM.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Britoid View Post

                  Those have nothing to do with Wayland and do not belong in a display server protocol. Wayland only describes the communication between a client and the display server. Font/DPI is handled by toolkits, so you're going to have to try and get some common ground with toolkits, good luck.

                  But why am I telling you this, you already know.
                  Nothing has to do with Wayland - just every fucking DE in the world has to reinvent the wheel every fucking day. No standards, no APIs, no nothing. Go push pixels to the screen. What a wonderful piece of shit we have here under the pretense of a modern graphical subsystem which is nothing but a thin layer on top of KMS.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by birdie View Post
                    Oh, yeah, imaginary Xorg bugs and use cases for 0.1% of users out there. Wayland fans are obsessed with them for the lack of any strong arguments.
                    I give you a hint who these Wayland fans are: Xorg devs

                    Don't think there's a way to convince you, but FTR: input (touch, gestures, kinetic scrolling...), security (sandboxing, lock screens...), HiDPI (fractional scaling, multi monitor with different scales...), power efficiency (not updating hidden clients - solved via frame callbacks on Wayland, hardware overlays or similar future technology), clean and versioned APIs, pixel perfect presentation - all areas that are incredible hard to get right on X11 (not just Xorg) and straight forward on Wayland. I can really just ask you to talk to people who actually work in these areas - it has a reason why the devs who know most about it push most for the switch to Wayland

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                    • #70
                      I'm sad Fluxbox wasn't tested. What is the contact info for the Phoronix "window manager inclusion officer"??

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