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Google Devs Call Open-Source NVIDIA Driver Unstable, Nouveau Blacklisted By Chrome

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  • #51
    Originally posted by linner View Post
    Simply, no. People are so crazy when it comes to understanding mining. Mining is a game of effiency. You would not want to overheat or damage a card in any way. All of my cards were run UNDERvolted and UNDERclocked. These are 350 watt cards and they never pulled more than 150 watts. They also had massive active cooling on them. They ran at 40C, always. I have tons of these cards from all sorts of brands, some of which were never used. They all behave the same way, they can't all be broken and there is no reason they would be broken anyway. I've seen the same thing on other people's machines when running the software I run.
    It is hard to say what your exact problem is if you don't tell us what hardware it is, and what kernel and mesa version you are using on it with what desktop environment. Also how many monitors are connected and with what resolution? Did you modify the BIOS of the card? To me it sounds like either a hardware defect (which can still happen, even if you took good care of the cards), or some sort of issue with adjusting the voltage and/or the frequencies.

    For instance, I get huge screen tearing and artifacts when two 4K monitors are connected to my RX 570, but the problem is fixed when I manually set it to a higher memory clock and shader clock level. Seems like the driver doesn't do a good job of figuring out those things on its own. Maybe this is fixed in a newer kernel version, I'm currently running 4.19.13.
    Last edited by Venemo; 06 January 2019, 09:36 AM.

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    • #52
      Nouveau is quite usable for me and my second-hand GT610.

      Sure, can't reclock, no power management. But even at its lowest speeds it accelerates my Gnome Wayland and Weston environments well enough.

      Does this blacklist only apply to Chrome, or is Chromium affected as well? Because I have no way to tell.

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      • #53
        Originally posted by [email protected] View Post

        I am quite sure they are referring to the lack of binary blobs. Nouveau compiles a clean-room engineered firmware from scratch, IIRC, which could be argued as being more free.
        They are trying to work on a clean-room firmware, but the nouveau driver in practice requires downloaded firmware from Nvidia to load into the card on initialization.

        From the website:
        Firmware

        VPE1/2 do not require any firmware to run. However, VP1/2/3/4/5 all require firmware to operate that is presently extracted from the NVIDIA binary driver. We cannot redistribute the firmware directly in linux-firmware because NVIDIA's license forbids redistribution of parts of their driver.

        An effort is underway to fully reverse the underlying engines and create open-source firmware to provide out-of-the-box video decoding, please join us in #nouveau on irc.freenode.net if you're interested in helping.
        https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/VideoAcceleration/

        So from this point of view, it's no more free than any other vendor blob dependent driver.

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        • #54
          Originally posted by debianxfce View Post
          No problems when you can do other things while git is cloning and ryzen 5 1600 is compiling my custom kernel in a minute.
          Faster than installing nvidia blob? LOL
          Originally posted by debianxfce View Post
          You can play games and listen to the music at same time.
          Sorry, you can't. Have to remind you that systems with radeon 590 was just hanging on graphical boot. So you could log to text console and play only some ADOM or something like dwarf fortress during wip kernel compilation. Or you could add amdgpu.dpm=0 to kernel params, in that case you could play something extremely outdated. Nevertheless, I haven't seen any "Linux radeon 590 users, read this" on AMD website, so it wasn't actually question of kernel compilation time, but time, you need to find that wip kernel, time to find firmwares, even time to find hints what to do.
          Originally posted by debianxfce View Post
          Do the same without X running while installing nvidia blob.
          Why should I close X during nvidia blob instalation? "sudo apt install nvidia-driver-NNN" or "sudo apt install nvidia-NNN" (naming schema was changed recently).
          Originally posted by debianxfce View Post
          Firmware files comes from freedesktop git and everything is documented.
          No. Firmware files come from distro's package. No one need to know about one of freedesktop's git repositories. And, actually, they were added to this repo a month after videocard's release. 10 days before that you had to take them from here: https://people.freedesktop.org/~agd5f/radeon_ucode/
          Originally posted by debianxfce View Post
          Nvidia does not even tell what kernels are compatible.
          Well, they always support latest mainline kernel.

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          • #55
            Originally posted by debianxfce View Post

            No problems when you can do other things while git is cloning and ryzen 5 1600 is compiling my custom kernel in a minute. You can play games and listen to the music at same time. Do the same without X running while installing nvidia blob. Firmware files comes from freedesktop git and everything is documented. Nvidia does not even tell what kernels are compatible. Closed source drivers cheat in benchmarks too. Communist should inspect and fine nvidia instead of VolksWagen.

            The Amd wip kernel is updated every week, clone it at Saturday. Rolling back is easy with grub. Rolling back with nvidia drivers is a way more complicated process.
            Not sure what's wrong with your system that you can't run X while installing the Nvidia proprietary stuff.

            My systems (Intel J5005 SoC-based) can do it just fine, and running KODI no less, using Debian-supplied kernels and Debian's DKMS package of Nvidia drivers. I run Debian "Buster".

            Perhaps I should make a housecall and fix your computers for you FOR FREE?

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            • #56
              Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
              Nouveau is quite usable for me and my second-hand GT610.

              Sure, can't reclock, no power management. But even at its lowest speeds it accelerates my Gnome Wayland and Weston environments well enough.

              Does this blacklist only apply to Chrome, or is Chromium affected as well? Because I have no way to tell.

              I have found the "nouveau" driver to be totally useless when trying to run KODI; too much tearing, delays in rendering, and so on. GT710 in my case.

              I change out the "nouveau" drivers for the latest Nvidia drivers available in Debian "Buster", and it uses DKMS to install it, and video displays just fine at 1080p. Even 4K playback is fine. Be thing of all, "jump forward" and "jump back" features of KODI work without delays in rendering.

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              • #57
                Originally posted by Tomin View Post

                Okay, but I never implied that the reason is mining. Computer parts break even in normal use sometimes. It's good that you know what you are talking about then. Have the problems you see with the software you use been reported to developers?
                You guys lost track with that talk..

                Initially one poster bitched about quality of open-source GPU drivers in general, using his AMD former mining cards as an example, speaking about persistent artifacts etc.. another told him that his cards were damaged.. etc

                To make it short..

                Mining: AMD cards were overclocked - raw power mattered, NVidias were underclocked - efficiency mattered.
                AMD cards suffered most, because these were overclocked (more raw performance) and this would long-term damage more stressed components. And interestingly - card could be already faulty (producing artifacts on display) but still keep mining.. so claiming that "my card is okay, it would still mine coins" is meaningless.

                Truth is, even Nvidia's cards get damaged by mining. Reason: Electrolytic capacitors have certain final life span (like 2000h working hours, 10 000 working hours - depending on quality) but having worked these hours, statistically amount of failures would start to increase very fast. And yeah, gfx card PCB's have electrolytic caps on'em..

                Manufacturers never envisioned cards being used 24/7/365 so gfx cards aren't produced like enterprise electronics. Cards are still made using consumer-grade components but get abused like enterprise equipment. So, warranty claims are pretty common among miners.

                Enough said, I NEVER buy used mining card, be it however cheap.
                Last edited by aht0; 06 January 2019, 06:30 PM.

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by creative View Post

                  Google Chrome. What else are you going to use to watch youtubes vp8/vp9 codecs? H264ify does not cut it. Firefox can't handle youtube, unless you love stuttering. There is plenty to not like about Chrome but it has its uses.
                  I have never had a problem using YouTube inside Firefox since the former dropped Flash.

                  As for Nouveau, it worked perfectly on my GT430.

                  Tip: Blacklist and rmmod it, or reboot, before trying to install the blob, or you'll have to spend a few hours chasing down why you get a black screen on boot, then looking up how to manually trigger DKMS to build the shim module.

                  I'm sticking to AMD and Intel gpus since that GTX950 purchase, it wasn't worth the hassle.

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                  • #59
                    So how will their desktop render without a basic accelerated driver?

                    Also oss amd drivers are nice!

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by linner View Post
                      Nouveau and all of the AMD drivers suck hard-core, practically unusable. The nVIdia proprietary driver is not perfect but it's the best thing out there and always has been.
                      not when you want to put linux on 4 year old pc, with equally old nvidia card. it works well on windows, because nvidia driver still works there. nouveau is just too slow even on nvidia hardware that old.

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