PCSX2 Emulator Disables Wayland Support By Default

[mSparks]

What I said was that the whole point of SSDs is that the WM/Compositor can reliably (key word: reliably) add things the application developer didn't think of.

just hyperthetically or is there an example of something gnome is missing that every application should have?

gnome still has a fairly vibrant addon market for custom server side stuff.... (although a lot got nuked over the years)

[ssokolow]

just hyperthetically or is there an example of something gnome is missing that every application should have?

gnome still has a fairly vibrant addon market for custom server side stuff.... (although a lot got nuked over the years)

Here's a comparison taken from my desktop (Kubuntu 20.04 LTS is too old to have KDE's own Flatpak permissions KCM, so I have Flatseal as the only headerbar-using app I chose not to evict from my formerly Lubuntu desktop):

https://imgur.com/a/zGcmAi0

(And note that Flatseal also doesn't obey my KWin setting to make double-clicking the titlebar toggle windowshade, not maximize. I can drag windows to the top edge of the screen to maximize them. It also ignores my "scroll wheel within the titlebar to switch desktops and carry the window along for the ride" setting... and if I were on something like AwesomeWM instead of KWin, it would also ignore my preference to only have titlebars/headerbars on floating windows.)

[mSparks]

Here's a comparison taken from my desktop (Kubuntu 20.04 LTS is too old to have KDE's own Flatpak permissions KCM, so I have Flatseal as the only headerbar-using app I chose not to evict from my formerly Lubuntu desktop):


(And note that Flatseal also doesn't obey my KWin setting to make double-clicking the titlebar toggle windowshade, not maximize. I can drag windows to the top edge of the screen to maximize them. It also ignores my "scroll wheel within the titlebar to switch desktops and carry the window along for the ride" setting... and if I were on something like AwesomeWM instead of KWin, it would also ignore my preference to only have titlebars/headerbars on floating windows.)

not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at, this is right click on firefox in gnome 45

I can hit the window into the top to maximise it, max it left and right with windows key left and right, minimize/maximise it with windows key up and down and shift the whole full screen window a screen left and right with windows key, shift left and right.

there are a ton of extras in settings I've not really played with, because that is all I need.

[abu_shawarib]

In a few months, it will be a good moment to kill GNOME off and to suggest people to switch.

This forum truly has some La La Land-level comments.

[ssokolow]

not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at, this is right click on firefox in gnome 45

Again, the point is consistency. "Application X does it properly" (which I can't be sure of since I can't remember where my Firefox's CSD toggle is. That might still be missing things I use like "Show in Activities", "Move to Screen", "No Border", and "Configure Special Window Settings". It's annoying when I have to know about and hit Alt+F3 to access the actual WM-provided context menu.) is not a rebuttal of "Application Y does it improperly" any more than "I always wear my seatbelt" is a rebuttal of "we need a law to make seatbelt-wearing mandatory".

I can hit the window into the top to maximise it, max it left and right with windows key left and right, minimize/maximise it with windows key up and down and shift the whole full screen window a screen left and right with windows key, shift left and right.

there are a ton of extras in settings I've not really played with, because that is all I need.

...and I can use Alt+LeftDrag to move windows which have no windeco at all and Alt+RightDrag to resize them. The existence of hotkeys for various operations doesn't rebut that the Headerbar-using application on my desktop refuses to honor my preference that double-clicking on a window's titlebar should shade/unshade it, not maximize/unmaximize.

[mSparks]

Again, the point is consistency. "Application X does it properly" (which I can't be sure of since I can't remember where my Firefox's CSD toggle is. That might still be missing things I use like "Show in Activities", "Move to Screen", "No Border", and "Configure Special Window Settings". It's annoying when I have to know about and hit Alt+F3 to access the actual WM-provided context menu.) is not a rebuttal of "Application Y does it improperly" any more than "I always wear my seatbelt" is a rebuttal of "we need a law to make seatbelt-wearing mandatory".

That's the same for any windows, plus I think a couple probably add their own

...and I can use Alt+LeftDrag to move windows which have no windeco at all and Alt+RightDrag to resize them. The existence of hotkeys for various operations doesn't rebut that the Headerbar-using application on my desktop refuses to honor my preference that double-clicking on a window's titlebar should shade/unshade it, not maximize/unmaximize.

alt+f7 and alt+f8 by default in gnome 45, very easy to change

I use three screens and keep everything maximised, so win+shift left/right is my go to for moving windows.

[s_j_newbury]

afaict this whole "security" thing is marketing BS anyway, with zero evidence to back any of the claims up and decades of X11 not getting pwned to demonstrate the claims as false.

If anything the general incompetence shown in wayland development so far suggests it is waaaaay more likely to have some nasty buffer overflows and privilege escalations hiding in the fragmented spaghetti code that makes up a wayland install than a battle hardened xorg-server - an xorg-server wayland is falling back on for any kind of gpu acceleration anyway.

How can a protocol have buffer overflows? Could some implementations? Sure, but it's a lot less code than Xorg. Xorg isn't the only X server implementation, and isn't only an X server.

an xorg-server wayland is falling back on for any kind of gpu acceleration anyway.

What did you mean by this? This is simply wrong. In fact, it's completely backwards. Compositors provide the acceleration for Xwayland through Glamor. If you're talking about X11 apps using GLX/EGL OpenGL or GLES then it goes through the DRI3 X extension which gets passsed through to the DRI drivers as on Xorg. Applications running on Wayland compositors without Xwayland have full access to acceleration APIs OpenGL/GLES through EGL, or Vulkan. I don't know where you got the idea they don't? Obviously GLX isn't a thing without an X server since it's an X extension.

[mSparks]

How can a protocol have buffer overflows? Could some implementations? Sure, but it's a lot less code than Xorg. Xorg isn't the only X server implementation, and isn't only an X server.

Anything that uses an array or index pointer can potentially have an overflow vulnerability

but it's a lot less code than Xorg.

Its a lot more code than x-org.
It uses all of the xorg code base
and adds

https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/xorg-x11-server-Xwayland

+
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston (or one of a hundred derivatives of, none of which have ever been used for production)

to it.

for the sole purpose of allowing new applications (e.g. PCSX2) that do not depend on TCPIP, because non networked applications is the future I guess......

[ssokolow]

That's the same for any windows, plus I think a couple probably add their own

The only meaningful interpretation of that makes so little sense in context with the conversation we were having that I don't even know what you're saying anymore. What's the same for any windows?

...because the behaviour I want is certainly the same for any SSD-using windows, and the behaviour is certainly not the same between the windows which obey my System Settings preferences and the windows which use CSDs.

alt+f7 and alt+f8 by default in gnome 45, very easy to change

That's like an ad network saying "We decided not to honour the DNT header, but it's very easy to go to our website and click a button to set our opt-out cookie."

I set my preferences in System Settings. They Just Work™ in every application except the ones that think they're too good for server-side decorations, using a toolkit developed by people who apparently have no interest in collaborating with KDE to make GTK's CSDs honour the same config settings KWin listens to for SSDs.

I use three screens and keep everything maximised, so win+shift left/right is my go to for moving windows.

Good for you. Not everyone wants that.

I remember the bad old days of having to separately configure KDE apps, GNOME apps, Xfce apps, ROX Desktop apps, etc. because they shared basically no configuration beyond the stuff baked into XFree86.

[mSparks]

The only meaningful interpretation of that makes so little sense in context with the conversation we were having that I don't even know what you're saying anymore. What's the same for any windows?

This is a modern really old version of gnome right click vs a modern KDE right click?

I'm talking about the latest version of gnome released at the end of September.

Good for you. Not everyone wants that.

Yeah they do, and VR, they just don't know it yet.

Just watched a YT video with some 20 odd year olds discussing buying their first laptop, hilarious, getting the perfect set up takes time and money (and they dont sell them "off the shelf")