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Lutris Updated With D3D12 DLL Provided By VKD3D-Proton

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  • Lutris Updated With D3D12 DLL Provided By VKD3D-Proton

    Phoronix: Lutris Updated With D3D12 DLL Provided By VKD3D-Proton

    The Lutris open-source gaming platform manager that also makes it easier installing Windows games via Steam is now employing the Valve-backed VKD3D-Proton fork for Direct3D 12 over Vulkan...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...1-VKD3D-Proton

  • #2
    How is that Wine project can't handle the focus on performance and games compatibility, that it requires a fork to do it?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by shmerl View Post
      How is that Wine project can't handle the focus on performance and games compatibility, that it requires a fork to do it?
      I'm not sure why would you blame Wine for someone else's decision to fork it, it's in nature of free software that forks happen and if Wine guys like the changes made by Valve in their fork there no reason for them not to merge it. I actually think having many actively developed forks is good and shows a healthy development of the project.

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      • #4
        A lot of exciting stuff happening in Wine-land and VKD3D-Proton is one. Another is Easy Anti-Cheat starting to work in experimental Wine builds. I've gotten Fortnite and other games working.

        Last edited by Xaero_Vincent; 07-19-2020, 01:10 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by shmerl View Post
          How is that Wine project can't handle the focus on performance and games compatibility, that it requires a fork to do it?
          Made any Wine donations lately? Paid for CX Office? It comes down to money. Crossover is focusing primarily on making App's, installers and Windows API operate.. Transgaming already showed in the past with WineX its not profitable for standalone developers to focus on Wine Gaming. Steam has a monopoly which sells games on all platforms though, so it's profitable for them to develop such a product.. Without Codeweavers efforts though (and even possibly without reactOS, which probably get's merged in a lot), you'd be lucky if steam could even get to this point

          It's like baking a cake. Codeweavers has cooked a cake with some help, Steam has put some extra icing on. And then you come and eat the cake for free, take a look at the icing and ignore the work that goes into the rest of the cake..

          Either shut up and eat, and thank them, pay for the cake, or help in the kitchen baking it.
          Last edited by Auzy; 07-19-2020, 01:30 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Auzy View Post
            It's like baking a cake. Codeweavers has cooked a cake with some help, Steam has put some extra icing on. And then you come and eat the cake for free, take a look at the icing and ignore the work that goes into the rest of the cake..
            That doesn't answer the question in any way. I'll repeat it - why is the fork needed? Try answering it, instead of trolling.

            To give you a hint, forks usually happen, if upstream can't accept changes for whatever reason. If you know the reason feel free to explain, instead of coming up with cake analogies.
            Last edited by shmerl; 07-19-2020, 01:44 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by shmerl View Post
              How is that Wine project can't handle the focus on performance and games compatibility, that it requires a fork to do it?
              In general, the Valve forks are done so that Valve can get the games on their platform up and running as soon as possible.

              That often implies things like game specific hacks that the upstream WINE project won't accept, because they want a full solution to the problem rather than the quickest minimal fix that some game requires.

              Why? Because partial fixes often end up regressing other applications - something that's not a big deal for Proton since it only has a limited number of games to support, but which is a bigger issue for WINE if it wants to support every Windows application. It can also cause maintenance issues over the long run.

              The good news is that the two projects are talking with each other. If the Valve fork figures out how to make a game work, someone is likely looking at how that can then be merged back upstream to WINE.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by shmerl View Post

                That doesn't answer the question in any way. I'll repeat it - why is the fork needed? Try answering it, instead of trolling. To give you a hint, forks usually happen, if upstream can't accept changes for whatever reason. If you know the reason feel free to explain, instead of coming up with cake analogies.
                Trolling? Sounds to me like you need a dictionary instead of an explanation.. Just because someone doesn't respond in the way you want, doesn't make them a troll, and your comment came across as an attack against Crossover..

                Here's a "hint", no, that's not the usual reason for forks..

                Think of them like 2 different branches, where one is a gaming branch, and one is an application branch. For gaming optimisation for instance, you want to make heavy use of Vulkan (possibly at the expense of breaking apps on less powerful machines) and you possibly want performance features like shared memory (which increases performance, but decreases security, makes debugging harder and decreases stability). Steam also wants a product which is guaranteed to integrate well with their gaming store (and likely has Steam specific modifications to do so). Wine is designed for totally independent apps, such as Office installers, and needs to be careful with that they redistribute.

                Crossover doesn't want to provide paid support for Steam games either, and Steam probably doesn't want to have to support apps like Microsoft Office purchased outside of their store.

                Both projects are moving incredibly quickly, and to work as one project, they'd need a lot of communication and planning between the teams (slowing both projects down). Look at how slowly working with the Linux kernel is at times (Bus1 for instance years later is still working on getting merged). Even the Linux kernel has branches to accommodate different use-case scenarios.

                It comes down to quality control and requirements for what they are doing. Branching large projects like this is fairly normal. It sounds like you're inferring that Crossover Office is mismanaging the project based on minimal evidence..
                Last edited by Auzy; 07-19-2020, 02:31 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Auzy View Post

                  Made any Wine donations lately? Paid for CX Office? It comes down to money. Crossover is focusing primarily on making App's, installers and Windows API operate.. Transgaming already showed in the past with WineX its not profitable for standalone developers to focus on Wine Gaming.
                  what the F are you talking about wine/Crossover team have one of worst decision making after the gnome team

                  Originally posted by Auzy View Post

                  Either shut up and eat, and thank them, pay for the cake, or help in the kitchen baking it.
                  .
                  they didn't accept Vulkan backend in the first until see doitsujin dxvk dev succeeded and win valve support
                  they don't won't C++ in wine code for unknown reasons
                  It's a cleary they don't understand how "Clean room" design work
                  they only support C89 to support Microsoft Visual C compiler ????

                  if I decided to do something about this mess I will rewrite wine from scratch with rust or something






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                  • #10
                    I love the effort Wine devs are doing, and I needed it years ago (I even paid for Crossover 6-7), but I've been on Linux for so long that I've transitioned everything I needed to Linux native apps.
                    The same goes with Steam, it has enough Linux native/ported games supported for me to be happy and reward game editors that go the extra mile and make the games available on Linux. Which is why I haven't installed Wine in 5 years and I will certainly not play on Proton (and reward "lazy" editors, or editors not deeming Linux as a viable financial option).

                    I can see the use case though, if you have friends that play some specific games, it's not cool to be left out. It's nice to see progress is still made to satisfy these use cases.

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