Systemd 245 Released - First Version Including Systemd-Homed

[starshipeleven]

Environment variables are needed, by the binaries to launch the services or to tune them..
And in fact that are a tonne of them used by the binaries involved..

If it's just used by target binaries then it's easier to deal with.

You can do lots of things with systemd, but not in a so easy way, and not in a so complex environment as with sysVinit..

Nah, once you learn how to use it it's faster than writing thousands of lines of code of shell script, as now you offload to systemd a ton of the "check if this is up and if this is up and if this is crashed" and other stuff like that.

Of course if you have this thousands of code of shell script it's easier to just keep using it than re-engineer everything as a bunch of systemd units, but this is just a legacy problem and why systemd still supports starting init scripts.

New stuff is usually better off written for systemd than as a single huge shell script, especially for normal admins that aren't programmers (and don't want to)

[tuxd3v]

If it's just used by target binaries then it's easier to deal with.

How?
You need to pass this variables to the Binaries, and it forms very big initialization commands in some cases.. and like you already said, its true on those products you start the "application" in steps, one step after the other( some can be done in paralell )

Lots of the code, check weather you have backup possibilities, weather there are users still logged, and a zillion of other things, but they are all related with the products themselves, not extra-features that I implemented..

We simply cannot afford to have downtime, that's why we have checks for everything..

Nah, once you learn how to use it it's faster than writing thousands of lines of code of shell script, as now you offload to systemd a ton of the "check if this is up and if this is up and if this is crashed" and other stuff like that.

Of course if you have this thousands of code of shell script it's easier to just keep using it than re-engineer everything as a bunch of systemd units, but this is just a legacy problem and why systemd still supports starting init scripts.

I understand, but my checks are not a duplication of OS functionalities, they are there because they are needed in some corner cases, the application will not work, or crash something, or else worst..

systemd, cannot give-me those checks, that is the point( I only receive Licenses, the products to install/configure and its guidelines, nothing more.. apart from that you have tons of work, to adapt the products to your datacenter, and how your company likes to work..including tune the systems for speed/resources, or to interact with other products, etc ).. systemd doesn't give nothing of this..

SysVInit neither, but it gives me the chance to use Env Vars, and control them, so that when you go to fork&exec, your binaries will be configured correctly.. another thing is that in the between you can add extra checks for something..
Its a System Scripting Language Its very useful..

New stuff is usually better off written for systemd than as a single huge shell script, especially for normal admins that aren't programmers (and don't want to)

I understand that a programmer don't want to "loose its time" learning shell scripting..

I also understand that a Sysadmin doesn't want to learn Html/Javascript, or Java/Jsp/Servlets, for me its ok( since he know about Python or Lua scripting Languages at least the basics.. ).
But a SysAdmin, not knowing about the language he himself, will use to administer his machines??
How could I trust him..??
yet... this start to happen frequently with recently contracted people( its something that tears me apart.. ).
Some show resistance..

[arokh]

With systemd lots of this possibilities would need to be broken in several parts, but even then environment variables are not passed from on to another service..to start it would be a mess, and we cannot afford 1 service per each line of shell script as we will end up with some 5k or more services, its unpractical..

Incorrect, there's "systemctl import-environment" and the likes.

With sysv its easy because you control everything,
With systemd it would be a mess( we don't use systemd for this type of servers )

Sounds more like your daemon setup is a mess and you can't be bothered to fix it.

Besides, I don't want to be summoned, and be blamed by systemd actions when something goes wrong..
I can only assume responsibilities by the work I do. and I believe any sysadmin feels the same..

I suppose do your job and do some quality control and you won't be summoned.

Systemd works nice in Desktop environments, or in virtualization servers like vmware, or with containers.. for complex environments it doesn't feet.

You're unable to learn something new and blame it on systemd, perhaps time to consider retirement. The rest of the world moved on to systemd years ago and is happy with it.

[aht0]

Anyone can claim that, we are on the Internet.

I actually remember him posting particular detailed stuff about AIX at some point in the past. "Detailed stuff" like particular commands, comparison against Linux equivalents and other such minutiae. Won't have such knowledge without actually having used the OS. My 2 cents .

[andyprough]

You're unable to learn something new and blame it on systemd, perhaps time to consider retirement. The rest of the world moved on to systemd years ago and is happy with it.

He's already posted new info that you cannot refute, so you reply to his original comment in an attempt to feel superior. But your two comments back to back just make your look silly.

[dr_atomic]

You're unable to learn something new and blame it on systemd, perhaps time to consider retirement. The rest of the world moved on to systemd years ago and is happy with it.

I looked at your posts, most of the are personal attacks on people who have different opinion on things than you. Your view on systemd is basically that everyone should just love it and embrace it, otherwise they should go somewhere else and die.

Who gave you the right to claim things like that? Someone should retire? Is unable to do something in your very limited and primitive opinion? You are the finest example of a troll, who is close-minded and intolerant.

[k1e0x]

Systemd works nice in Desktop environments, or in virtualization servers like vmware, or with containers.. for complex environments it doesn't feet.

I totally feel your pain as a sysadmin.

Doing anything custom with systemd? Forget it.. We moved most of our stuff to FreeBSD.

[arokh]

He's already posted new info that you cannot refute, so you reply to his original comment in an attempt to feel superior. But your two comments back to back just make your look silly.

I still haven't read his follow up comments, and even if I had it wouldn't invalidate what I commented. In other words, your assumption makes yourself look quite silly.

I looked at your posts, most of the are personal attacks on people who have different opinion on things than you. Your view on systemd is basically that everyone should just love it and embrace it, otherwise they should go somewhere else and die.

This is what's called putting words into someone's mouth, which is a weak and manipulative person's attempt to win an argument. I could do the same and say that this being your 2nd post here is likely due to you having created a second account to support your other account's opinions. But that would be silly now wouldn't it.

As you can clearly see in what you posted, it was not a personal attack but a "professional" one.

Who gave you the right to claim things like that? Someone should retire? Is unable to do something in your very limited and primitive opinion? You are the finest example of a troll, who is close-minded and intolerant.

I'm a professional too, so technically that does give me the right. What he's saying is the equivalent of a plumber who can't plumb, or a boxer that can't box. He said he's a 20+ years professional and tries to paint a picture that systemd somehow can't do the same, or makes it difficult to do the same that his script does. This is factually incorrect. While I can understand him being frustrated just at having extra work due to his distribution of choice having made the switch, it's actually what his job is. Technology evolves, learning new things and adapting services is a normal and every-day part of a sysadmin's job. Adapting does become tiring though (I only have 19 years professional experience myself), but I would actually rather retire than argument against a great open source innovation on a technical forum due to my own laziness. So yeah, my comment that he should retire is completely fair game.

[Danny3]

In a distro with thousands of packages, there's always multiple $AWESOME_THING just around the corner. If they'd keep waiting for those they'd never get a release out of the door.

You're right, but some packages are more important than other so in my opinion the kernel, systemd, MESA, Xorg, Wayland should be always the latest version possible and the others can wait or be updated later.

[tuxd3v]

This is what's called putting words into someone's mouth, which is a weak and manipulative person's attempt to win an argument.

well, that is exactly what you have done, with me..
People that dislike something, are not by design. people without knowledge( or needing retirement.. )..

In Fact only people with knowledge can indeed dislike something,
Because they know the good, the bad , and the ugly of something..

Your statements part from the beginning that, if we don't like something its because we are not Professionals or Informed people..
Which is completely wrong,
And that line of thinking is the one you( as a group of people ) have been using since the beginning..

But it is more an attack on people than anything else..