Systemd 245 Released - First Version Including Systemd-Homed

[computerquip]

well, that is exactly what you have done, with me..
People that dislike something, are not by design. people without knowledge( or needing retirement.. )..

In Fact only people with knowledge can indeed dislike something,
Because they know the good, the bad , and the ugly of something..

Your statements part from the beginning that, if we don't like something its because we are not Professionals or Informed people..
Which is completely wrong,
And that line of thinking is the one you( as a group of people ) have been using since the beginning..

But it is more an attack on people than anything else..

It is not an "attack on people". People are giving you valid advice and criticism. You're deflecting because you don't know how to counter-argue.

• Why don't your scripts run through sysv-compat?
• If that doesn't work (which it probably would), why can't you wrap your scripts in simple service files?
• systemd is not there to replace your daemon script necessarily, it's there to *manage* your daemon. How it manages to do that is up to you. It just so happens to be able to replace a lot of simple use-case daemons that do basically the same thing as a hundred or more other daemons do.
• If you feel attacked, I can see why. But you need to look at it from another perspective. You're spreading FUD while claiming to have "20 years" of experience in your field. Just based on your ignorant posts alone and based on my own professional experience, I'm going to naturally question that claim.

EDIT: Honestly, I could answer technical questions even if you have them. None of your posts are actually technical points against systemd though. Your only claim is about environment variables which don't even apply to you since they're apparently handled by your shell script. systemd doesn't need to manage that for you.

[tuxd3v]

Originally posted by computerquip,
It is not an "attack on people". People are giving you valid advice and criticism. You're deflecting because you don't know how to counter-argue.

wow, just wow, you are using the exact same technique as :
Originally posted by arokh View Post
This is what's called putting words into someone's mouth, which is a weak and manipulative person's attempt to win an argument.


I was using valid arguments against homed, were this all started..
then we spoke about systemd in general vs SysVinit, and I just gave my opinion, taking in account my experience on it..

I presented valid arguments, but received the usual systemd group responses, or even advised to retire myself..
That is what we shouldn't be talking about on this thread sincerely..

I spoke also about Environment variables because a lot of products use them, to set/tune things, was only a point that I touched..
someone spoke about importing them, to what, a Global space?
would be great analyzing it from a security perspective..

You haven't read my comments for sure..if we have 20 or more service users, its because of privacy concerns, and separation of roles..
I was just speaking about the fact that systemd is not tailored to big/complex installations on data-center, and I explained why..
If you don't understand, don't came on me telling that I am "deflecting because I don't know how to counter-argue".

I believe we should end this conversation, because its start to go in a wrong way, you are even responding to a reply that I made to another user..

[dr_atomic]

This is what's called putting words into someone's mouth, which is a weak and manipulative person's attempt to win an argument.

Well, anyone can see your profile, but from the top of the list:

Strange times we live in, suddenly there's a lot of raging noobs on the internet opposing innovation and software development.

So basically what you are saying is you are incompetent and can't comprehend simple documentation or learn new things?

You should probably not be running Linux, or even operate a computer.

now you can put your script in there shut up and get off the internet talking about stuff you have no clue about.

I love systemd, it's best feature is moving all the nutjobs over to BSD/Devuan.

See, I'm just putting your words into your mouth, you tend to forget what you said quite fast apparently.

Happy user of systemd, wayland and pulseaudio here. They work excellent for all my use cases.

That is you too.
Not everyone is happy with systemd and not everything works in each and every case regarding systemd, which was stated by many competent people, with experience and knowledge, here and outside of Phoronix. Do you remember, for example, Lamest Vendor Price for systemd and Poetterin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pwnie_Awards

Using anything different that systemd is not a sing of incompetence or mediocrity.

[arokh]

I was using valid arguments against homed, were this all started..
then we spoke about systemd in general vs SysVinit, and I just gave my opinion, taking in account my experience on it..

I presented valid arguments, but received the usual systemd group responses, or even advised to retire myself..
That is what we shouldn't be talking about on this thread sincerely..

Which valid arguments? You haven't presented a single one actually.

I spoke also about Environment variables because a lot of products use them, to set/tune things, was only a point that I touched..
someone spoke about importing them, to what, a Global space?
would be great analyzing it from a security perspective..

And here's the essence of your posts, incompetence. You don't even know how the software function, how could you have any opininons on the security of it?

You haven't read my comments for sure..if we have 20 or more service users, its because of privacy concerns, and separation of roles..
I was just speaking about the fact that systemd is not tailored to big/complex installations on data-center, and I explained why..
If you don't understand, don't came on me telling that I am "deflecting because I don't know how to counter-argue".

Again, you haven't explained why. Systemd handles scripts and environment variables. Not tailored to big/complex installations? Do you realize how silly that sounds? Probably not.

I believe we should end this conversation, because its start to go in a wrong way, you are even responding to a reply that I made to another user..

I totally understand that you want to end discussions, especially considering it's becoming blatantly obvious that you actually have zero experience or knowledge about the product.

[computerquip]

Originally posted by computerquip,
It is not an "attack on people". People are giving you valid advice and criticism. You're deflecting because you don't know how to counter-argue.

wow, just wow, you are using the exact same technique as :
Originally posted by arokh View Post
This is what's called putting words into someone's mouth, which is a weak and manipulative person's attempt to win an argument.


I was using valid arguments against homed, were this all started..
then we spoke about systemd in general vs SysVinit, and I just gave my opinion, taking in account my experience on it..

I presented valid arguments, but received the usual systemd group responses, or even advised to retire myself..
That is what we shouldn't be talking about on this thread sincerely..

I spoke also about Environment variables because a lot of products use them, to set/tune things, was only a point that I touched..
someone spoke about importing them, to what, a Global space?
would be great analyzing it from a security perspective..

You haven't read my comments for sure..if we have 20 or more service users, its because of privacy concerns, and separation of roles..
I was just speaking about the fact that systemd is not tailored to big/complex installations on data-center, and I explained why..
If you don't understand, don't came on me telling that I am "deflecting because I don't know how to counter-argue".

I believe we should end this conversation, because its start to go in a wrong way, you are even responding to a reply that I made to another user..

This is a forum, if you can't handle criticism or care to provide any reason behind your claims, then expect to get shut down. A lot of people won't take kind to you spreading FUD.
Your first post was:

Well,
The fact that not everyone approves the way things are done in systemd, doesn't mean they are wrong..

In fact it could mean they are right..
Systemd tried to simplify a lot of things , complicating tones of them in the process..

I understand that a lot of folks wannabe GNU/Linux experts, and I understand that should exist a way to lower the bar for them..

Ubuntu born for that,
The majority of real professionals, had take a lot of effort to educate themselves sufficiently enough to work on GNU/Linux, the problem is the new coming people are too much MS Windows aware, and not prepared..

I understand that they glorify Systemd, but his adoption on the server is were the problem resides..

Which is a response to someone pointing out horrible incoherent arguments... which you defended. You basically did the exact same thing you claim people are doing to you by calling people who criticize systemd "wannabe GNU/Linux experts".

The whole problem here is that you *aren't* presenting valid arguments. People are pointing that out to you and you don't really seem to care. Instead of trying to figure out why people like systemd so much, you just cry that you're the victim.

Hell, if people actually took the time to make coherent arguments, I'd probably be on board with them. The problem is that they don't, they instead point to non-arguments or make arguments from ignorance. And I quote:

With Systemd, I need to rewrite it, and still create separated name.services files for each one..crazy.. and ones depend on the execution of the others..

A blatantly false statement. You don't need to do that. You haven't explained why you need to do that and every time someone brings it up, you seem to dance around it. You haven't provided an actual reason.

This is why I think you're not a professional. You adhere to FUD, you're clearly uneducated in a field that you claim to be an expert in for 20+ years. Either you're abhorrently bad at argument, you're not a professional at all, or you need to do a better job at keeping up with your field.

[arokh]

Like I said, he should retire. If I hired this guy and found out later he couldn't migrate a script to systemd, I would fire him and consider reporting him to the police for lying on his resume. Very typical anti-systemd guy really, no arguments or knowledge of systemd but extremely opinionated. The entire industry moved _years_ ago to systemd, everything about it has been discussed to death already. Professionals already know it inside and out.

I was just speaking about the fact that systemd is not tailored to big/complex installations on data-center, and I explained why..

My favorite line. The only facts that can be deduced here is that he doesn't know what a fact is and has never been to a data center.

[tuxd3v]

I totally understand that you want to end discussions, especially considering it's becoming blatantly obvious that you actually have zero experience or knowledge about the product.

Don't use the usual systemd group excuses again, or your own experience, to evaluate others..
That type if tricks are very low!

[tuxd3v]

Like I said, he should retire. If I hired this guy and found out later he couldn't migrate a script to systemd, I would fire him and consider reporting him to the police for lying on his resume.
(...)
My favorite line. The only facts that can be deduced here is that he doesn't know what a fact is and has never been to a data center.

You conversation...is trash talk!
That excuses you use above are personal attacks, and just reiterate that they are a tool of mass indoctrination by force, but that doesn't work with me..

If you ever hire me, which I would doubt( thanks god),
You would do it to do the things correctly, because its the way I feel we should do.
And I would never migrate crucial services from SysVInit to systemd, because I look to systemd and I see a toy, and I need stability/uptime coherence..
To use products that are monsters and so much parameterized that we don't control everything, no thanks!

Hiding behind a tool, to obfuscate the lack of knowledge about shell scripting, is not an option to me, I'm a sysadmin sorry if this hurts anybody feelings, but shell scripting, plus C language are the base foundations of any Linux SysAdmin..
Or you are really a sysadmin, or you don't!

The most probable would be, me... not hiring you!
Probably I would include some C tasks, and maybe a task in language that you understand( Python,Lua,Perl.. )
On the interview the first thing I would do would be to putting you at test, carefully chosen tasks in different shells( at least dash/bash/csh/ksh ), I bet you would fail!

So I wouldn't even need to fire you..

Probably because you don't have sufficient knowledge about the system language( yes shell script ash/dash/bash/csh/ksh ), the ones you need to operate a Linux server..

And usually I report directly to the Director Board of the Company, to probably I wouldn't even need to deal with people like you..

But for me, this conversation thread is over, it passed from a discussion to personal attacks long ago, low tricks, and others...
So better to terminate this discussion..

[arokh]

Let's sum up tuxd3v's arguments against systemd:

- Can't migrate his scripts due to variables
- Not tailored to big/complex installations on data-center
- He sees systemd as "a toy, and I need stability/uptime"
- Systemd is "hiding behind a tool, to obfuscate the lack of knowledge about shell scripting"

Did I miss anything? Right, so let's get back to making fun of his professional career. Like he has 20+ years of experience and reports directly to the "Director Board of the Company" I think it's safe to say at this point that this director is actually his mom.

[aht0]

Let's sum up tuxd3v's arguments against systemd:

- Can't migrate his scripts due to variables
- Not tailored to big/complex installations on data-center
- He sees systemd as "a toy, and I need stability/uptime"
- Systemd is "hiding behind a tool, to obfuscate the lack of knowledge about shell scripting"

Did I miss anything? Right, so let's get back to making fun of his professional career. Like he has 20+ years of experience and reports directly to the "Director Board of the Company" I think it's safe to say at this point that this director is actually his mom.

He certainly seems to have rather rich mother, buying his boy enterprise servers to play with.. /sarcasm
I voluntarily admit I have no clue how to acquire personal machine running AIX. His mother obviously does. Or he is actually working with such machines? Because I don't think you can pull this shit out of just google query, you have to have some basic hands-on experience.
https://www.phoronix.com/forums/foru...e4#post1127298

arokh, maybe try to control your personal insults? So his opinion does not align with yours? poor you.