XDG Top-Level Drag Protocol Approved For Wayland

[Daktyl198]

I was racking my brain about that because I get why it's as controversial as it is.
...

Honestly, I don't think it's all that hard to solve. The .desktop file should override any icon the application tries to set for itself, for it's main executable that is linked in the .desktop file. Any windowed processes spawned after the initial one can set their own icon, and obviously applications that don't have an icon can set their own.

We could optionally add a new setting to .desktop files to bypass the .desktop override, for applications like Wine where you want the application to set it's own icon, despite "wine" technically being the main program being executed.

[patrick1946]

The title bars would be covered by CSDs, but not the icons in the overview, taskbar/panel, Alt+Tab app switcher, and wherever else where an app may show multiple entries because it has multiple windows that is outside of the app's windows.

I actually prefer the preview of the window. Maybe the can add an experimental extension for that.

[Myownfriend]

Honestly, I don't think it's all that hard to solve. The .desktop file should override any icon the application tries to set for itself, for it's main executable that is linked in the .desktop file. Any windowed processes spawned after the initial one can set their own icon, and obviously applications that don't have an icon can set their own.

I guess that could work. I think the primary and secondary icons thing was proposed by the person writing the protocol last I checked it so having the compositor should have able to associate the applications sub-icon with with it's primary icon and stuff. I guess what I struggle with is that it ends up really just being a property for an option visual queue in the interface. It's so separate from how the rest of the protocol works that most applications could achieve the same thing with .desktop files and have it work on X11 and Wayland.

We could optionally add a new setting to .desktop files to bypass the .desktop override, for applications like Wine where you want the application to set it's own icon, despite "wine" technically being the main program being executed.

I've thought of the .desktop file with a passthrough thing before, too. I can imagine that being used a lot outside of Wine apps, too.

[Myownfriend]

Thank you!

This is way better than anything I could write, from an actual contributor, KDE's David Redondo: https://blog.david-redondo.de/kde/wa...evel-drag.html It has interesting background on the Qt/kwin status, and going forward in Plasma.

Thanks again! I love reading blog posts by devs of different projects!

[Myownfriend]

I prefer they take 9 months to add the protocol functions properly with long term design, rather than rushing a crap standard that will need a modified extension in a few months after they realize it was not made the best way.

If I'm not mistaken I don't think it took much longer than 9 months for the X11 core protocol to be created. I'm pretty sure X10 only came out like a year before.

[Rallos Zek]

If anyone asks why Linux hasn't already became the best desktop OS vs Windows, OR why Wayland isn't ready. You can point them to things like this.

Linux Desktop/OS: COLOSSAL potential, at a excruciating snails pace compared to proprietary desktop OS

Linux has been a better desktop OS than Windows, and has been for a number of years. Just because its not up to your liking doesn't mean theres not a number of us who think Linux crushes Windows in desktop use.

[theriddick]

Linux has been a better desktop OS than Windows, and has been for a number of years.

This is only correct if you IGNORE desktop features and software compatibility! Now that is a fact!
Also I was only referring to a overall fact, not exclusively to Linux-only-fan opinion because obviously if you ONLY use Linux and never touch Windows then clearly it is a better desktop for YOUR needs. But what about everyone else on the planet?!

[ssokolow]

I guess that could work. I think the primary and secondary icons thing was proposed by the person writing the protocol last I checked it so having the compositor should have able to associate the applications sub-icon with with it's primary icon and stuff. I guess what I struggle with is that it ends up really just being a property for an option visual queue in the interface. It's so separate from how the rest of the protocol works that most applications could achieve the same thing with .desktop files and have it work on X11 and Wayland.

Except that we've already seen the LibrePCB people code in an "XWayland-only" restriction because "Screw this. We're going with what works." and, as someone who likes to develop stuff, un-installed, from ~/src/ and doesn't like having extra QA testing foisted on him to meet his own standards, I'm also likely to follow the dolphin-emu guys' lead and just XWayland-only my creations pending Wayland meeting my definition of "functional".

(As another data point for that attitude, yesterday, I used Flatpak's support for easy downgrade-and-mask to revert Geeqie to version 2.1 because some of the prep-work to retire use of deprecated-and-removed-in-GTK4 classes broke my preferred UI layout... and yes, the bug has been reported and I'm subscribed to it. The TL;DR is that Geeqie 2.2 is incompatible with narrow sidebars.)

EDIT: PCSX2, not dolphin-emu. Building cognitive habits while sleep-deprived which you later rely on without thinking is f-ing insidious.

[rrveex]

This is only correct if you IGNORE desktop features and software compatibility! Now that is a fact!
Also I was only referring to a overall fact, not exclusively to Linux-only-fan opinion because obviously if you ONLY use Linux and never touch Windows then clearly it is a better desktop for YOUR needs. But what about everyone else on the planet?!

I don't know what "better desktop" means. Also, I don't care much _how_ things look like, as long as they are usable, but even so - Windows (10) is a mess of ... windows - and I mean the "system" ones, belonging to Windows - that come from different eras and look very different.

The "services" window is from NT era, white, ugly, not respecting scaling, dark theme, etc. The new (unusable) settings like "bluetooth" are, for some reason, always full screen. The "control panel" is in several places, looks different (one is "devices", the other "system", again other "control home" or "settings home" or something).

Speaking of "compatibility" - I'd say "Windows 10 is not compatible with Windows 10".

[Myownfriend]

This is only correct if you IGNORE desktop features and software compatibility! Now that is a fact!

Well, no, that's still just an opinion. I don't think Windows is a bad OS. I still have it on a second partition (thought I barely use it) and I have it installed in a VM which I keep updated and mess around with frequently. I only switched to Linux from Windows in 2020 and I was immediately impressed.

• I was able to use both my monitors at full resolution and use Firefox while I was installing Ubuntu (I'm now on Fedora).
• I didn't have to install any drivers for my USB audio mixer. On Windows I needed to install ASIO drivers to access all of the inputs and outputs even though Windows is supposed to have supported USB Audio Class 2.0 since 2017.
• Mixed DPI scaling, at least in Gnome with a Wayland session, works way better than Windows. Windows doesn't resize the window on both monitors as it's transitioning from one monitor to the other so there's always a point where half of it is way too small or way to big and it looks really jenky.
• Audio routing in Linux with things like Carla and Helvum is a dream. I just need to connect audio from different devices and apps visually. On Windows I needed to "donate" to Voicemeeter Potato to use it. It creates a few virtual audio devices that you can use to route audio through it. It required me to make Voicemeeter my main audio device, then my mixer as it's main audio device in order to route to specific inputs of my mixer. If I turned my mixer off or closed Voicemeeter it would mute all my desktop audio and I have to change my audio output again. After getting a new computer my license couldn't be used again so I had to buy it again. It was a nightmare. I tried another piece of software that was easier to use but it created 16 virtual audio devices.
• Pipewire allows multiple applications use the same webcam. Windows, macOS, and Android can't do that. I can even route the webcam stream in the same way I route audio using the same software.
• My printer just worked.
• I can install most applications I use through Gnome Software and it doesn't install them to a protected, hidden directory like Windows.
• I mounted my Home directory to a second drive so the last time I had to re-install, my app settings were all retained and all my per-user Flatpak apps were already installed. I was pretty much back to where I was before the re-installation in about ten minutes. I tried moving my User directory to a second drive years ago in Windows. It was a pain in the ass to do, and Windows broke the symlinks the next time I installed an update.
• When I used Windows daily I would use Spotify, Discord, VSCode, Edge, Blender, and Davinci Resolve. All of them are available on Linux and Blender runs noticeably faster.
• All of my drawing tablet's features worked without installing drivers and all the settings were available in Gnome Settings.
• At one point I bought some software for Windows called Spacemonger so I could visual see how much space things on my drives took up. It stopped getting updated years ago and I lost the license to it. Gnome has Disk Usage Analyzer installed by default.

Also I was only referring to a overall fact, not exclusively to Linux-only-fan opinion because obviously if you ONLY use Linux and never touch Windows then clearly it is a better desktop for YOUR needs. But what about everyone else on the planet?!

I feel like I have a pretty wide variety of needs and its meets them pretty well and it's getting better. The Twitch streamers I know have wished they could route their audio and video with something like Helvum on Windows. A lot of people are now gaming on Linux. I would also happily install it on my mom's laptop. All she does is use a browser all day and her webcam hasn't worked in Windows for years but it works in Linux so she could video chat with family members.