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GNOME Shell UX Continues Improving For GNOME 40

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  • #61
    Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
    I didn't think they could make it more annoying to use, but they're literally adding an extra click to do things.

    Mez' That's a big post and I don't want to quote it, but I disagree about the distributions that ship with plugins by default like Manjaro. I've used it and it's not integrated and seamless and it feels like a cobbled together experience. Maybe if someone at Manjaro took all 10 plugins and combined them into one for the Manjaro Experience it'd be better; maybe doing something like what PopOS does with their shell. While I agree that what they offer is somewhat better than stock GNOME, it's still only curated plugins and has that "I'm using random plugins" feel.
    Doesn't really matter to me how it's done. Especially since it's quite transparent, even more so on Manjaro than on Ubuntu. Distros make do with what they have. Since 3rd party is the only way, it's difficult to bundle these extensions together. I only see the Ubuntu dock as an example, Ubuntu took Dash-to-dock and simplified it.
    Actually, Ubuntu Budgie might offer what you describe but it's a different GTK experience. Budgie Welcome displays a selection of layout to pick from and it install specific stuff depending on your selection. You can still modify it piece by piece afterwards though.

    The important thing is that they can't ship that useless UI as is. Vanilla Gnome is unusable except for (Fedora) nerds. You can't put that into non-geek hands (a lot of Linux users are curious and more IT literate than average Joe's but still no geeks or nerds), it's a given failure. If only for the cheap and outdated Gnome basic theme (without user theme extension you can't change the original theme).

    You can't do anything easily or configure anything with bare Gnome. Users would freak out.
    Last edited by Mez'; 20 December 2020, 12:40 PM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Alexmitter View Post
      That reminds me of this video showing off plasma mobile https://youtu.be/mMdH-PXrPgc, the first smooth app he opened was gnome 2048. Qt runs like dogshit on that hardware while GTK3 runs at least acceptable.


      KDE seems to think it is ready enough for a community edition pinephone


      Plasma Mobile, unlike Phosh is now nearly 10 years old originating in the Plasma Active codebase from 2011, you would think it would be more by now then a unoptimized quickly hacked together UI preview in QML.



      if crashing and stuttering the whole time is a feature, then yes. it has more of those.
      #1 it just had major performance improvements just this last week, and infact Plasma Mobile uses less ram and CPU than Phosh.

      #2 KDE Neon has something wrong which is causing performance degradation and more crashes, which is not a result of Plasma Mobile. Manjaro Arm Plasma Mobile Dev images are the best to test it with. This is why the KDE edition pinephones will ship with Manjaro's Plasma Mobile.

      #3 There's definitely slowdowns in dolphin, but that is not a result of the QT framework. If GTK is so good, then when does Gnome-software still have so many issues? It's not the framework at fault for that either.

      #4 Plasma Mobile has been slow to develop because there has not been a reliable hardware platform for it to be worked on. They recently announced they are dropping support for halium and focusing solely on the pinephone because of the fact that the old android devices the developers were using were not working well, and they hadn't had access to reliable hardware for years by now. The good thing is that the KDE foundation has announced the Pinephone will be it's official Plasma Mobile hardware, and after that announcement there has been much more activity in Plasma Mobile's code base. I should note that the Pinephone being it's official hardware of choice will likely mean even further speed optimizations, as the developers improve the performance for the Pinephone's low end hardware. As i said before, just these past weeks there has been a bunch of performance otpimizations such as the switch to a newer theme which not only looks better but uses a lot less resources. I anticipate when people receive their KDE edition pinephones that development will pickup even more, as was the case with phosh. Not to mention it definitely does have more features: Word suggestions in the keyboard, A built-in theme switcher, Full integration with KDE-Connect, Notifications with individual clear buttons unlike phosh (and there will likely soon be a full DND system with individual app blacklisting), Night mode built right into the drawer, It shows a OSD when you press the volume keys unlike phosh, It has support for desktop widgets like Plasma Desktop, Ability to import contacts into the dialer right from the UI, A browser with *full* GPU acceleration, An actual file browser app that is fully convergent, The toggles in the drawer actually toggle the features instead of opening the system settings, There is gestures for navigation of the UI, etc.
      Last edited by Baguy; 20 December 2020, 12:52 PM.

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      • #63
        A lot of the hate comes from the personal memory of the inconvenience of being forced to switch DEs. Especially when the alternatives to gnome would introduce new issues into your workflow.

        It's similar to the google product model:
        1. Buy / adopt working product.
        2. Identify feature that <100% of the userbase demands, and has no workaround if removed.
        3. Remove feature.
        4. Bask in anger of people suddenly stuck looking for alternatives.

        Gnome project owes me nothing and I've contributed nothing to it. But I still can't un-remember the annoyance when I had to switch to KDE4.
        Last edited by extremesquared; 20 December 2020, 12:50 PM.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by NateHubbard View Post

          Basic computer users are running Windows.
          And those basic computer users have had their DNA altered to know how Windows works from the day they were born?

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          • #65
            Originally posted by extremesquared View Post
            A lot of the hate comes from the personal memory of the inconvenience of being forced to switch DEs. Especially when the alternatives to gnome would introduce new issues into your workflow.

            It's similar to the google product model:
            1. Buy / adopt working product.
            2. Identify feature that <100% of the userbase demands, and has no workaround if removed.
            3. Remove feature.
            4. Bask in anger of people suddenly stuck looking for alternatives.

            Gnome project owes me nothing and I've contributed nothing to it. But I still can't un-remember the annoyance when I had to switch to KDE4.
            Last time there wasn't very good alternatives, KDE4 or Xfce and they both had major drawbacks, so alot of people just switched to Windows. At least this time there are quite a few good alternatives available. Hopefully overall Linux Desktop marketshare doesn't drop off as dramatically again.

            Maybe right now it's a good time to preemptively write up migration guides from Gnome to each of those alternatives...

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            • #66
              Originally posted by duby229 View Post
              Maybe right now it's a good time to preemptively write up migration guides from Gnome to each of those alternatives...
              Why would there be a second exodus? This seems like an incremental change to gnome.

              And I'm not sure about the premise that people will change kernels to escape a DE when there are several DEs available. Those people certainly are not a source of the resentment, at least. Also, the suggestion that a failure of one DE caused an exodus to Windows does not exactly reflect positively on the linux ecosystem.
              Last edited by extremesquared; 20 December 2020, 02:33 PM.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Mez' View Post
                The important thing is that they can't ship that useless UI as is. Vanilla Gnome is unusable except for (Fedora) nerds.
                Useless only for those think that way while users outside forum without bias are happy using plain GNOME Shell as long their favourite applications are installed.

                You can't put that into non-geek hands (a lot of Linux users are curious and more IT literate than average Joe's but still no geeks or nerds), it's a given failure. If only for the cheap and outdated Gnome basic theme (without user theme extension you can't change the original theme).
                Flawed assumptions as I have helped average users installing Fedora, taught them how to update and upgrade to the next version via Software. Some of them figured out the shortcut and like using keyboard more to quickly access their applications. Majority of them use Windows 10 at their office and Android mobile.

                You can't do anything easily or configure anything with bare Gnome. Users would freak out.
                Yes you can as bare GNOME is designed with minimal distraction n mind and more emphasis on productivity.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                  ... bare GNOME is designed with minimal distraction n mind and more emphasis on productivity.
                  Googling stackoverflow posts for how to accomplish something basic using dconf is not necessarily going to result in a net productivity gain for everyone. I'm at least marginally computer literate, and at some point realized that dconf was going to be more of a time drain than "apt install xxx-desktop".

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                  • #69
                    I'm a kde user, fan, and occasional contributor. Kde has its problems, which everybody know and I'm not going to list here.
                    I'm trying gnome on pop os just for fun and because I like to try different stuff.
                    It runs pretty well with at least a couple of unavoidable extensions, but there are way more quirks than there should be. This is a leitmotif of the linux desktop though. The other DEs are no exception and have their own personal quirks.
                    I say this just to clarify that I don't want to troll.

                    Booting in Activities seems unnecessary. Nobody ever complained about booting in a clean desktop. At least it should be optional.
                    I like favourites at the bottom, because I'm not a fan of vertical docks or taskbars.
                    All in all these seem pretty good enhancements.
                    To me they're shamelessly copying apple and macos, but that's fine. Copying is good!
                    The thing that really bothers me is that they still havent copied the one ui concept that apple kept over the years. The global menu.
                    IMHO a global menu would fit gnome perfectly. There's already an almost empty top bar with only a clock, that's centered just to make it seem less empty!
                    By the way the useless topbar with the centered clock is one of the reasons why people think of gnome as a tablet os. Becase it looks just like an ipad!

                    PS: I know that there's an extension that should introduce it back, but I extensions are tricky and usually not guaranteed to work (and that's on the upstream devs, not on the extensions devs)

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                    • #70
                      PPS: Allergy to feedback and general attitude both from the devs and the fanboys are another big hindrance for gnome

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