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GNOME Shell UX Continues Improving For GNOME 40

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  • #91
    GI_Jack I agree with you. Am I failing to understand the contrast with my post? 🤔

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    • #92
      Originally posted by duby229 View Post
      During the Gnome2 days Linux Desktop adoption in general was on the rise and Marketshare hit at least 3%, then Gnome 3 launched and Gnome lost 2/3rds of its userbase and overall Linux Desktop marketshare dropped below 1%... Now it's at around 2%, lets see how much marketshare they can lose and how bad Gnome can hurt linux this time...
      Can you prove it?

      Originally posted by Mez' View Post
      I have yet to read a strong Gnome or Fedora fan say just once "OK, I don't like what they did there". It really feels like a sect dumbed down of their free will.
      As Fedora and GNOME user - I don't really like new design. I prefer vertical orientation and actual Overview screen. I also don't like how actual GNOME sometimes performs in Wayland session (input lags are annoying) and lack of xdg-decorations support which causes some Wayland applications to appear with poor or no decorations at all. I would be probably fine with only GTK applications but I'm not using only GTK applications. I don't really like not having a tray. Should I say more or it's enough for you?

      You are making weird assumptions. First saying that vanilla GNOME is unusable for anybody which is obviously false (although I can agree it's not the desktop that most users would expect, but "most" is not "everybody") or comparing GNOME users with Apple fanboys. And all of this without any arguments, just "I don't like it so it has to be bad for everyone". Is it really that difficult to understand not everyone will share your opinion? Also what is wrong with sentence like "If you don't like then don't use it"? Isn't Linux is about freedom? Freedom is not only for users but also for developers. GNOME developers can make their desktop look like they want any you have freedom to ignore them and use something else. If you don't want to accept their vision, why they should accept your vision? Maybe all Linux desktop environments needs to follow traditional metaphor and making something different is forbidden?

      GNOME is not unusable. GNOME is different.
      Last edited by dragon321; 21 December 2020, 12:58 PM.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
        JackLilhammers Oh nice. First the usual “nobody cares about the desktop” then sources that proves it wrong. This low effort, low quality trolling gets you nowhere.
        You're implying that these 2 aspects are opposites and mutually exclusive, but in fact they can coexist. The current situation is proof of that.
        Does Red Hat need a working desktop? Of course!
        Do they need to replace X? Of course!
        Does it need to support new hardware? You don't say

        Do they care about making it user friendly and familiar*? Not so much and not at all
        *to the average user that 99,9% comes from Windows or Mac
        Are they competing for the desktop market share? Nope
        Would they move differently if they had to compete for said market? Most likely

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        • #94
          Originally posted by dragon321 View Post

          Can you prove it?



          As Fedora and GNOME user - I don't really like new design. I prefer vertical orientation and actual Overview screen. I also don't like how actual GNOME sometimes performs in Wayland session (input lags are annoying) and lack of xdg-decorations support which causes some Wayland applications to appear with poor or no decorations at all. I would be probably fine with only GTK applications but I'm not using only GTK applications. I don't really like not having a tray. Should I say more or it's enough for you?

          You are making weird assumptions. First saying that vanilla GNOME is unusable for anybody which is obviously false (although I can agree it's not the desktop that most users would expect, but "most" is not "everybody") or comparing GNOME users with Apple fanboys. And all of this without any arguments, just "I don't like it so it has to be bad for everyone". Is it really that difficult to understand not everyone will share your opinion? Also what is wrong with sentence like "If you don't like then don't use it"? Isn't Linux is about freedom? Freedom is not only for users but also for developers. GNOME developers can make their desktop look like they want any you have freedom to ignore them and use something else. If you don't want to accept their vision, why they should accept your vision? Maybe all Linux desktop environments needs to follow traditional metaphor and making something different is forbidden?

          GNOME is not unusable. GNOME is different.
          You can fanboy all you want bro, I don't have to prove shit to you. It's common knowledge, has been for years. Google, Duckduckgo, Yahoo, MSN... Choose one....

          You can choose to be ignorant all you want...

          EDIT: The sky is blue, Water is wet, Gnome sucks ass.... All facts... I don't have to prove shit to you... You wouldn't believe the truth even if your eyes were forced open and it was dumped on you...
          Last edited by duby229; 21 December 2020, 02:12 PM.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by duby229 View Post

            You can fanboy all you want bro, I don't have to prove shit to you. It's common knowledge, has been for years. Google, Duckduckgo, Yahoo, MSN... Choose one....

            You can choose to be ignorant all you want...

            EDIT: The sky is blue, Water is wet, Gnome sucks ass.... All facts... I don't have to prove shit to you... You wouldn't believe the truth even if your eyes were forced open and it was dumped on you...
            And yet the fact still remains that Gnome is the default GUI/DE for Linux. All the rest including KDE are just hobbyist projects of various degrees. KDE has the most active developers and some monetary backing by corporate Linux of the hobbyist projects, but because of two disastrous rollouts coming from KDE v3, namely KDE 4 and the colossal clusterfark that was KDE 5, KDE is a nearly universally recognized also ran as far as Linux GUIs go.

            Between Red Hat and Canonical and the rest of the forks of either GTK or Gnome based GUI's, KDE and the rest of the hobbyist GUI's DE will be just that....hobbyists projects.

            So drink up buttercup from the cup of bitter truth.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by Jumbotron View Post

              And yet the fact still remains that Gnome is the default GUI/DE for Linux. All the rest including KDE are just hobbyist projects of various degrees. KDE has the most active developers and some monetary backing by corporate Linux of the hobbyist projects, but because of two disastrous rollouts coming from KDE v3, namely KDE 4 and the colossal clusterfark that was KDE 5, KDE is a nearly universally recognized also ran as far as Linux GUIs go.

              Between Red Hat and Canonical and the rest of the forks of either GTK or Gnome based GUI's, KDE and the rest of the hobbyist GUI's DE will be just that....hobbyists projects.

              So drink up buttercup from the cup of bitter truth.
              You are definitely correct at Canonical and Red Hat. However, Gnome does not work for all of us. I can appreciate all of the work of Gnome developers - it is remarkable, but that still does not change the fact that different people think in different ways and are productive in different ways. For some of us, Gnome does not work as well as other DEs. Does that make us wrong? I do not think so. Does that mean we have a choice? Most definitely. Should we look for something that works best for our needs? Absolutely. Does it have to be Gnome or KDE or (insert DE here), not necessarily. Gnome, while adequate for many, does not suit my needs - but that is my use case. Am I going to blast it? No. But is constructive criticism and honest assessment of Gnome useful? Yes. Does everybody do that? No. And that is a shame. I spent two years trying to find a DE that met my needs. That is a long time. I found one, but it is not Gnome. Do I think Gnome is a bad DE, no. Would I use it? I have several times and I may try again in the future depending upon what is done with it, but for now, no. If the rest of the DEs are hobbyist DEs, than that is fine for the rest of us. I do some serious work on a DE that is not Gnome and I am content with how it performs. Linux is about choice. That is the beauty of open source.
              GOD is REAL unless declared as an INTEGER.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by dragon321 View Post
                And all of this without any arguments, just "I don't like it so it has to be bad for everyone".
                I'm never extrapolating my own little case to everyone. If I indulge myself in generalizing my criticism to some extent, it comes from a huge deal of concurring opinions I've read about everywhere.
                Also, I always offer so many arguments that I feel like it's too much compared to the little or total void I face in the other direction. So, your assumption is just laughable.

                Comment


                • #98
                  You know, after reading every single one of the posts here, I can not for the life of me understand why anyone hasn't seen the slow but increasingly convergence of look and feel between GNOME and the GUI of ChromeOS.

                  To wit....here are some images to make my point.

                  Below is the layout of the Virtual Desks as implemented in ChromeOS. Notice how the collection of the various desks you can choose is on the top and with the ChromeOS dock on the bottom.



                  Now....compare and contrast ChromeOS and the upcoming GNOME 40 with Virtual Desks......




                  Now to be sure, GNOME 40's dock is way more like MacOS while ChromeOS is more or less a center justified version of Windows Task Bar.

                  But now...have a look at ChromeOS's and GNOME's App Grid and tell me honestly you don't see more than a faint similarity. First is ChromeOS App Grid







                  Now for GNOME's App Grid


                  GNOME 3.38 Desktop Environment





                  So...we have a Top of Window Search Bar for each GUI. Check. We have a Grid of Apps that can be moved around and placed where we want them on both GUIs. Check. We also have on the right a series of "Dots" which denotes how many windows there are of Apps and which window we are on at any given time on both GUI's.....check, check, check.


                  Finally....have a gander at both ChromeOS greeter/log-in page. Once again...ChromeOS first.






                  Now the greeter/log-in screen from GNOME....






                  Let's be brutally honest. All non Apple GUIs have been influenced by MacOS to a certain degree. Some are MORE influenced than others. That would be GNOME and ChromeOS.

                  That said....it does seem like there is a LOT of "cross pollination" going on between the ChromeOS GUI/UX design team and the GNOME design teams. Not saying that's good or bad....just interesting. I happen to like both ChromeOS and GNOME. They are both my favorite by far of all computer GUI's across all systems. I actually got used to and become productive FASTER on ChromeOS BECAUSE I had been using GNOME on my Linux machines for the past 10 years....that's how similar they are. And the same thing happened with my kids, with one actually saying that he thought ChromeOS WAS GNOME but made for Chromebooks.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Jumbotron View Post

                    And yet the fact still remains that Gnome is the default GUI/DE for Linux. All the rest including KDE are just hobbyist projects of various degrees. KDE has the most active developers and some monetary backing by corporate Linux of the hobbyist projects, but because of two disastrous rollouts coming from KDE v3, namely KDE 4 and the colossal clusterfark that was KDE 5, KDE is a nearly universally recognized also ran as far as Linux GUIs go.

                    Between Red Hat and Canonical and the rest of the forks of either GTK or Gnome based GUI's, KDE and the rest of the hobbyist GUI's DE will be just that....hobbyists projects.

                    So drink up buttercup from the cup of bitter truth.
                    Truth is Gnome sucks ass... You can drink that...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mez' View Post

                      Plus Dash-to-dock, Unite, Activities configurator, Frippery Move Clock, No topleft Hot Corner, Multi-monitor, User Themes, and it's just off the top of my head.
                      You can dsiable the top-left hot corner without any extension, GNOME Tweaks can do it.

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