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LibreOffice 7.0 Is The Version Now In Development With Its Skia + Vulkan Support

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  • #31
    Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
    ROFL

    For me, I'm the one making and sending out documents. Libre works just fine for me because because I export everything to PDF first. I can say "it's good enough" because, for my needs, it actually is. Damn near any office suite will suit my needs so that really isn't saying too much. If "export to/save as PDF" works with Adobe Reader, the office suite suits my needs.
    You try to defend Libre office but you kind of repeat urban myths, maybe 1 2 years ago I would have said the same advice because I did not know it better, but MS Office can perfectly fine open and save ODF Files. Therefor you just can send people your odf files, except you want for some reason create pdfs like better readability, but it sounds that you have to because else other people can't view it.

    And if somebody sends you a docx file, you should tell him that he should save it as odf, again easy to do in MS Office if the person is not very verse with computers there are easy guides to do it that you can link to in the mail lika that:
    https://support.office.com/en-us/art...4-ea06b7df3b0e

    Techy people will probably try to work around by either run ms office in wine or convert it or do some other shit to open the docx file, but that is not really a moral thing A it costs you likely more time than the other person and B the other person don't learn that there exist something outside the MS Universe and C they learn that MS Office Format is not accepted everywhere. So they learn that if they use MS Office they get this strange emails from many people that ask them to save it in a different format, so they don't feel that ohhh I use MS Office all works without problems idea because others waste hours to transform their garbage formats. And it's so minimal to do that even if the power dynamic is not in your favor if you are not communicating with a total choleric they will do this small step for you. And they probably remember to send you in the future always the correct version.

    Of course that would not scale if somebody would want to send you 100 or 500 office documents it's not plausible to open them and save them again for each of them, but that is not a very common scenario.

    About Libreoffice, they are to conservative, they should either in the odf file format or as addon add git support, and not on the zip file but inside it or the uncompressed file so that a diff would give you meaningful data and each commit is not just a 100% new file that replaces the old one but only adds the changes. Even if you would not see the changes in a useful manner, having a "go back to 2 versions before because I made a mistake between the last 2 saves, would be a major feature probably much more easy to implement than the vulcan shit. And they should give people access to the files in a non "WYSIWYG" way because that is more efficient and less distracting, editing content and formation should not be mengeled together at least not exclusively but that is more difficult task for the start a included .git directory in each odf zip would help a lot.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Britoid View Post
      LibreOffice does use client-side decoration. It's just a standard GTK titlebar.
      Right, otherwise it would not work on Gnome Wayland session. What I meant was that they don't make use of the possibilities it offers but instead aligne it with SSDs. What I wished them to do is to make things like Firefox, which offers to use a titlebar, but (at least when using their Wayland backend) disables the titlebar by default, saving space (that you could then waste for ribbons :P)

      Originally posted by Britoid View Post
      Chrome doesn't really use GTK by the way other than to read colours.
      Right, but by doing so and using CSDs it looks arguably more integrated on Gnome than Libreoffice...

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      • #33
        Originally posted by treba View Post

        Right, otherwise it would not work on Gnome Wayland session. What I meant was that they don't make use of the possibilities it offers but instead aligne it with SSDs. What I wished them to do is to make things like Firefox, which offers to use a titlebar, but (at least when using their Wayland backend) disables the titlebar by default, saving space (that you could then waste for ribbons :P)



        Right, but by doing so and using CSDs it looks arguably more integrated on Gnome than Libreoffice...
        I actually think LibreOffice looks more native under GNOME than Chrome does, by a long mile. Firefox also looks a lot more native under GNOME than Chrome (Firefox does use GTK, but not GTK's layout engine).

        I think LibreOffice could could clean up it's "ribbon"-like interface and maybe put a few bits in the titlebar, but I don't think it would gain much, it has to work on other platforms.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Britoid View Post
          it has to work on other platforms.
          Well, I guess more than 95% of their users are on platforms where CSD is the norm nowadays (windows, mac, gnome), while the platforms benefiting from a SSD focused layout are limited to tiling window managers and maybe KDE. And if you use a tiling window manager, why would you use Libreoffice? You use vim or emacs with latex!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by treba View Post

            Well, I guess more than 95% of their users are on platforms where CSD is the norm nowadays (windows, mac, gnome), while the platforms benefiting from a SSD focused layout are limited to tiling window managers and maybe KDE. And if you use a tiling window manager, why would you use Libreoffice? You use vim or emacs with latex!
            SSD/CSD isn't really relevent on other platforms because they have a native toolkit for creating windows. SSD is really only an X.org thing because the X server was expected to do drawing and you didn't have a "native toolkit".

            You're confusing customized title bars with client side decoration. They're not the same thing, although the former requires the latter.

            Back to LibreOffice, different platforms have different designs on putting things "up there", how macOS does it is completely different to GNOME for example.
            Last edited by Britoid; 01-23-2020, 03:09 PM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by blackiwid View Post

              You try to defend Libre office but you kind of repeat urban myths, maybe 1 2 years ago I would have said the same advice because I did not know it better, but MS Office can perfectly fine open and save ODF Files. Therefor you just can send people your odf files, except you want for some reason create pdfs like better readability, but it sounds that you have to because else other people can't view it.
              I don't want people to edit my invoices and contracts. Write protected PDFs are perfect for that.

              PDFs are also a pretty universal format in regards to read-only files. I can assume that anyone can read and print what I send if I use the PDF format (is format redundant there; like atm machine?) since pretty much every OS used in modern times has some form of viewing support for them. That is something that I can't assume with any office suite document formats regardless of suite used.

              Like I said, LibreOffice works for my needs of drafting up a contract and sending that out as a format I know with certainty that my customer can view and print. That is my one use case for any office suite and why anything that saves as PDF will work. Not that it's anyone's business, but I'm in transition to Calligra because I'm a KDE Plasma user and it looks better on my desktop. Most of my custom-made OOO templates I still use (and yeah, I've been doing this since the early OOO days), while still working with LibreOffice, don't look right when I load them up in Calligra...oh, transition is a euphemism for "too lazy to redraft".

              My needs are simple and any suite is sufficient. Someone else with major office needs, especially when document sharing and collaboration is involved, probably does need something more universal and better than what most open source suites provide. I'm not going to deny that or even try.

              Different needs have different solutions.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                Intuitiveness typically comes from whatever you learned first. MS Office is objectively intuitive, but, you're not going to think that way if you're so used to other tools. My main gripes about Office is how resource-intensive it is, the fact the ribbon bar is horizontal rather than vertical, and poor Linux functionality.

                But for everyday use, LibreOffice is more than good enough.
                From my point of view, MS Office is objectively non-intuitive. It makes me angry and frustrated every single day, and many of my (typical Windows) colleagues. And I learned it first.

                If only I was allowed to use LO at work.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by JeansenVaars View Post
                  Libre is sooo behind office. Its sad but I wish Libre got the resources it requires to make it competitive.
                  You can help making those resources available

                  http://libreoffice.org/donate/

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by JeansenVaars View Post
                    Libre is sooo behind office. Its sad but I wish Libre got the resources it requires to make it competitive. There's not a slight chance it can compete with ms word or power point, lack of features, templates and even this decade's appearance.

                    Its blocking my family to moving to Linux actually. They just need office and work with files other people send as docx , pptx etc
                    I beg to disagree. For using them both on a regular basis (MSO more regularly though as I'm forced at work), I feel like I can finish a proper document much faster with LO. Sure, you get the job done as well with MSO, but you spend more time on formatting than on the content itself.

                    When I read documents from my colleagues, you can really sense that they usually stopped bothering early on to try to get the formatting right (as a basic example, bullet points are often misaligned throughout the document, either on Word or PPT). Although "Format Painter" is helping, it's still a mess on MSO.

                    From my experience, the more advanced and complex the document, the easier it is with LO. Either on Writer or Impress at least.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Cerberus View Post

                      Wrong, it is dominating because LibreOffice breaks formatting of many Microsoft Office documents and makes it impossible to collaborate with individuals and companies who create documents in Microsoft Office.
                      That's ridiculous. They reverse engineered something that had no standard for a long time. And now that MS formalized a standard, it is well known even their own office suite doesn't respect that standard.

                      You just take this problem from the wrong end.

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