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LibreOffice 7.0 Is The Version Now In Development With Its Skia + Vulkan Support

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Britoid View Post
    LibreOffice does use client-side decoration. It's just a standard GTK titlebar.
    Right, otherwise it would not work on Gnome Wayland session. What I meant was that they don't make use of the possibilities it offers but instead aligne it with SSDs. What I wished them to do is to make things like Firefox, which offers to use a titlebar, but (at least when using their Wayland backend) disables the titlebar by default, saving space (that you could then waste for ribbons :P)

    Originally posted by Britoid View Post
    Chrome doesn't really use GTK by the way other than to read colours.
    Right, but by doing so and using CSDs it looks arguably more integrated on Gnome than Libreoffice...

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    • #32
      Originally posted by treba View Post

      Right, otherwise it would not work on Gnome Wayland session. What I meant was that they don't make use of the possibilities it offers but instead aligne it with SSDs. What I wished them to do is to make things like Firefox, which offers to use a titlebar, but (at least when using their Wayland backend) disables the titlebar by default, saving space (that you could then waste for ribbons :P)



      Right, but by doing so and using CSDs it looks arguably more integrated on Gnome than Libreoffice...
      I actually think LibreOffice looks more native under GNOME than Chrome does, by a long mile. Firefox also looks a lot more native under GNOME than Chrome (Firefox does use GTK, but not GTK's layout engine).

      I think LibreOffice could could clean up it's "ribbon"-like interface and maybe put a few bits in the titlebar, but I don't think it would gain much, it has to work on other platforms.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Britoid View Post
        it has to work on other platforms.
        Well, I guess more than 95% of their users are on platforms where CSD is the norm nowadays (windows, mac, gnome), while the platforms benefiting from a SSD focused layout are limited to tiling window managers and maybe KDE. And if you use a tiling window manager, why would you use Libreoffice? You use vim or emacs with latex!

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        • #34
          Originally posted by treba View Post

          Well, I guess more than 95% of their users are on platforms where CSD is the norm nowadays (windows, mac, gnome), while the platforms benefiting from a SSD focused layout are limited to tiling window managers and maybe KDE. And if you use a tiling window manager, why would you use Libreoffice? You use vim or emacs with latex!
          SSD/CSD isn't really relevent on other platforms because they have a native toolkit for creating windows. SSD is really only an X.org thing because the X server was expected to do drawing and you didn't have a "native toolkit".

          You're confusing customized title bars with client side decoration. They're not the same thing, although the former requires the latter.

          Back to LibreOffice, different platforms have different designs on putting things "up there", how macOS does it is completely different to GNOME for example.
          Last edited by Britoid; 23 January 2020, 03:09 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by blackiwid View Post

            You try to defend Libre office but you kind of repeat urban myths, maybe 1 2 years ago I would have said the same advice because I did not know it better, but MS Office can perfectly fine open and save ODF Files. Therefor you just can send people your odf files, except you want for some reason create pdfs like better readability, but it sounds that you have to because else other people can't view it.
            I don't want people to edit my invoices and contracts. Write protected PDFs are perfect for that.

            PDFs are also a pretty universal format in regards to read-only files. I can assume that anyone can read and print what I send if I use the PDF format (is format redundant there; like atm machine?) since pretty much every OS used in modern times has some form of viewing support for them. That is something that I can't assume with any office suite document formats regardless of suite used.

            Like I said, LibreOffice works for my needs of drafting up a contract and sending that out as a format I know with certainty that my customer can view and print. That is my one use case for any office suite and why anything that saves as PDF will work. Not that it's anyone's business, but I'm in transition to Calligra because I'm a KDE Plasma user and it looks better on my desktop. Most of my custom-made OOO templates I still use (and yeah, I've been doing this since the early OOO days), while still working with LibreOffice, don't look right when I load them up in Calligra...oh, transition is a euphemism for "too lazy to redraft".

            My needs are simple and any suite is sufficient. Someone else with major office needs, especially when document sharing and collaboration is involved, probably does need something more universal and better than what most open source suites provide. I'm not going to deny that or even try.

            Different needs have different solutions.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
              Intuitiveness typically comes from whatever you learned first. MS Office is objectively intuitive, but, you're not going to think that way if you're so used to other tools. My main gripes about Office is how resource-intensive it is, the fact the ribbon bar is horizontal rather than vertical, and poor Linux functionality.

              But for everyday use, LibreOffice is more than good enough.
              From my point of view, MS Office is objectively non-intuitive. It makes me angry and frustrated every single day, and many of my (typical Windows) colleagues. And I learned it first.

              If only I was allowed to use LO at work.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by JeansenVaars View Post
                Libre is sooo behind office. Its sad but I wish Libre got the resources it requires to make it competitive.
                You can help making those resources available

                http://libreoffice.org/donate/

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by JeansenVaars View Post
                  Libre is sooo behind office. Its sad but I wish Libre got the resources it requires to make it competitive. There's not a slight chance it can compete with ms word or power point, lack of features, templates and even this decade's appearance.

                  Its blocking my family to moving to Linux actually. They just need office and work with files other people send as docx , pptx etc
                  I beg to disagree. For using them both on a regular basis (MSO more regularly though as I'm forced at work), I feel like I can finish a proper document much faster with LO. Sure, you get the job done as well with MSO, but you spend more time on formatting than on the content itself.

                  When I read documents from my colleagues, you can really sense that they usually stopped bothering early on to try to get the formatting right (as a basic example, bullet points are often misaligned throughout the document, either on Word or PPT). Although "Format Painter" is helping, it's still a mess on MSO.

                  From my experience, the more advanced and complex the document, the easier it is with LO. Either on Writer or Impress at least.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Cerberus View Post

                    Wrong, it is dominating because LibreOffice breaks formatting of many Microsoft Office documents and makes it impossible to collaborate with individuals and companies who create documents in Microsoft Office.
                    That's ridiculous. They reverse engineered something that had no standard for a long time. And now that MS formalized a standard, it is well known even their own office suite doesn't respect that standard.

                    You just take this problem from the wrong end.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by JeansenVaars View Post
                      Libre is sooo behind office. Its sad but I wish Libre got the resources it requires to make it competitive. There's not a slight chance it can compete with ms word or power point, lack of features, templates and even this decade's appearance.

                      Its blocking my family to moving to Linux actually. They just need office and work with files other people send as docx , pptx etc
                      Not really, LibO looks like MS Office used to, when it was still useful. This decades appearance (the ribbon) is just an ever changing button bar that makes it impossible to find the feature you are looking for, except when you know where it is (i.e. you should be able to find the Bold button). The craziness started with Intellisense, the menu bars that were hiding features you don't use often. And then, as you can't find them never use them. Thankfully LibO didn't go this way.

                      Then when you use it for a longer period (like in my case almost 30 years since MS Word 1.1,writing technical and scientific articles, reports and books) you will find the file formats change all the time, and MS Word can't read it's own format. Thankfully there are ISO standards to resolve this problem, Open Document and PDF. And LibO's support of Open Document is much better than MS Words.

                      If you really know what your talking about you will find LibO does what Office does, but better (bugs aside) and on more platforms.

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