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Linus Torvalds Encourages Kernel Developers & Everyone To Get Vaccinated

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  • Originally posted by nokipaike View Post
    So from 2020 onwards, the immune systems of people who overcome the disease are no longer able to extinguish pandemics naturally ...
    If you're advocating for the "natural" approach to herd immunity, then you're saying you prefer many millions more people should die, rather than we take vaccines. That's simply not moral. A person can make their own medical decisions for themself, but who are you to decide that's a better course of action for entire societies than to develop and use vaccines?

    The other thing you don't know is just how long natural immunity lasts. So far, it's looking like many who get the virus don't develop antibodies which last as long as those promoted by the vaccines. In that case, it's possible the virus just keeps circulating. And the longer it circulates, the more likely it mutates in ways that make it ever more contagious.

    The worst assumption you seem to be making is that humans actually stopped all previous outbreaks with their immune systems. There's evidence of entire civilizations being wiped out by diseases. That's another way that previous disease outbreaks would end. Because we didn't have rapid forms of travel, disease didn't spread as readily so outbreaks tended to be more contained.

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    • Originally posted by piorunz View Post
      Thanks but I will pass vaxx for "deadly" virus with 99.9944% survival rate (in my age group).
      That makes you and your peers a viral reservoir, like bats, where the virus can circulate and periodically jump to someone in a vulnerable population.

      I got vaccinated not out of personal concern, but because I didn't want to risk passing it (directly or indirectly) to anyone more vulnerable.

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      • Originally posted by piorunz View Post
        Of course, as long as people stay healthy and take care of themselves, they have continued protection against all diseases thanks their own immune system. Immune system works against all "variants" of flu and other coronaviruses like Covid-19.
        This is an absurd statement. First, if you knew anything about the history of pandemics, you'd know the 1918 flu killed primarily young, healthy people.

        Second, adolescents and young adults are definitely spreaders of Covid-19, even if they don't get serious symptoms. That's one of the reasons this virus is so bad -- that people can spread it before or without experiencing symptoms! That's why it's not enough to "simply stay home when you're sick"!

        Finally, healthy people get seriously ill and die of Covid-19, as well as other diseases. Just because poor health increases your risk of bad outcomes doesn't mean good health is perfect protection!

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        • Originally posted by piorunz View Post
          In my age group 30-39 there has been 506 deaths from 8 million people (in that group) in my country. Higher chance of death I have of lightning strike or car crash or something.
          That's 1 in about 16000, not 1 in a million. And you're only counting death, while far more survive with long-term symptoms.

          Originally posted by piorunz View Post
          I will leave taking poisons to you. 👍😊 Wish you luck.
          I hope you can get a vaccine in time, when a variant like the one in India hits your area. Even if your country has spare doses right now, it probably won't if cases and hospitalizations suddenly spike.

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          • Originally posted by piotrj3 View Post
            There is no magical medicine that kills covid viruses,
            Aren't monoclonal antibodies fairly effective? They're based on the specific antibodies that people naturally produced to fight Covid-19.

            I don't have efficacy data, but that's one of the things they gave Trump that was thought to help the most.

            Of course, they're not inexpensive and I don't know how well they work on variants, so I'm not saying we should rely on them. IIRC, it's also important to administer them early enough.

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            • Originally posted by GMAHN View Post
              Linux and open source software have a disclaimer that it may not work and the makers won't be held liable.
              The vaccine makers admit that their vaccines don't always work and they got Congress to pass a law so that they can't be held liable for the negative effects.
              You can't just remove a bad patch to the human body like we do with the Linux kernel and the irony of all this is lost on Torvalds.
              The vaccine is still experimental and waiting is a logical choice for healthy low risk people and the fact that Torvalds can't accept that nuance and must resort to emotional pleas and ad hominem attacks shows that the value of his opinion on the topic is zero.
              Bad analogy. The disclaimer on Linux is against damages that might occur from using it for a particular purpose. Such damage cannot be fixed merely by patching the kernel. The fact that you can't accept that nuance and must resort to contorted logic to make your ideologically-motivated point shows that the value of your opinion on the topic is zero.

              What you and many others are missing is context. Torvalds' email was in response to other messages on the list. It didn't just come out of nowhere.

              There's another point, which is that the safety and efficacy of the vaccines is now well-established, as is the death and suffering caused by the virus. The faster vaccine doses get administered, the less unnecessary death and suffering occurs and the quicker and more completely society can return to normal. It's a pretty straight-forward calculus.

              To label the vaccine as "experimental", at this point, is disingenuous. For most people, there doesn't appear to be good cause to delay taking it.

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              • Originally posted by Gps4life View Post
                2018 or 2019 had a higher number of people dying. This year the flue seems to have almost disappeared.

                Has the flue gone or is somebody messing with the numbers ?
                Seriusly, is that a question you have?

                The flu spread more or less the same way as Covid-19. And this year we have had the world show an intense focus on preventing virus spread along those vectors. Like hand cleaning, wearing masks, social distancing, limit om traveling and lockdowns. In fact the nearly total absence og the flu prove two things. The acctions tanken to prevent spread works. And Covid-19 is much more contagius than the flu.

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                • Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
                  Nice moving the goal post...

                  a known concept that is called evolutionary pressure. Especially the in many country promoted consequence to delay the 2nd vaccine in favor of vaccinating faster more people is very dangerous.
                  Huh? You talk about moving the goal post any only now introduce this point about delaying second doses?
                  • I didn't see anyone here debating the existence of evolutionary pressure.
                  • I didn't see anyone here claiming that delaying the second dose was a good idea.

                  Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
                  Even if there is no clear proof that this negative effects will happen, it's at least a strong thesis, but respected scientists, you don't have to ask a flat earther to get that answers.

                  But yet you make the statement that vaccinations reduce mutations, when science say that it's at least as likely if not more likely that it helps to create mutations. I can proof my statement with sources, of scientists saying that,
                  Please do. Although, I'm still not exactly clear on what you're claiming. If it's that we shouldn't delay second doses. then I'd agree. Though, I'd still like to see the maths which predicts the likelihood of the virus gaining vaccine-resistance, as a result.

                  However, f you're claiming that people shouldn't get vaccinated, at all, then I think you're misreading the scientists you claim to be citing.

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                  • Originally posted by ddriver View Post
                    I dare say logic takes precedence to funding and job security obsessed scientists.
                    Publication does. And that requires peer-review. And to get past that, you typically need data and methods that support your claims.

                    But, I'm sure you know all about that, right Dr. Driver?

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                    • THIS particular virus does not need a vaccine. I've had covid and tested myself numerous times for it and never had it again. I talk to people who have it shake their hands and give hugs. I never got it again. Why? Because I have an immune system like you with a 99% efficacy — for a virus with a 99.98% survival rate. Getting vaccinated has become a religion.

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