Systemd-Free Debian "Devuan" Planning Their First Developer Gathering This Spring

[starshipeleven]

Use systemd with the Amlogic S912 SOC and the android 3.19 kernel that has audio support.

Why would I use shitty hardware with a blobbed and ancient kernel anyway? Just so I can complain about systemd devs not caring about my shitty hardware that can only use a shitty hacked ancient kernel?

[cybertraveler]

That's just a more rigorous "man of culture" writing style. It sounds more aloof and retro, in these days of crappy grammar and emoji.

And his analysis is on point. There is an obvious relationship between showing anti-systemd behaviour and being a moron of some sort.

It wasn't his writing style that prompted my response; it was the content.

I know that there are entities with a web presence who, for whatever reason, deliberately try to incite drama, division & discord. The content of his post looks like it was purposefully designed for that effect; hence my response to him/her/them/it.

"His analysis is on point".

For those reading: starship is referencing this so-called "analysis":

"I think at this point it's clear to see that mental illness and anti-systemd behaviour are related. No valid argument against it has ever been presented to this day. " -arokh

I don't know what your deal is either, Starship.

[Bsdisbetter]

It's a known fact that FreeBSD proponents in fact use MacOS. Systemd, pulseaudio, avahi, cairo and wayland were all designed closely inspired by their MacOS counterparts. But that's one of those truths that must never be told.

Sometimes I feel that those haters actually don't mind systemd, pulseaudio, avahi and other similar things, as long as it's not under the GPL and is not running on Linux.

Or, in a slightly different way, they see and recognise the need to move beyond the Unix "philosophy" and enjoy using an OS that does that, but Linux must never be allowed to go that route.

Go figure.

you're full of it. Some of the bsd devs use mac that hardly defines support for all the software apple produces. some use windows, oracle and so on, but most use bsd... amazingly.
Your statements have to be the most inane attempt to bolster your 'argument' of your pathological hatred of those who haven't embraced with virtuous rapture your beloved systemd.

so some distro doesn't want anything to do with systemd & they're roundly attacked by the zealots like you. Lol, full circle where the zealots were the anti-systemd group. The worm has turned.

get over it.

[Bsdisbetter]

I think at this point it's clear to see that mental illness and anti-systemd behaviour are related. No valid argument against it has ever been presented to this day.

You really believe what you type or are you a troll. Either way, you're a damaged human.

[Danielsan]

It's more a case of pointing out the discrepancies between the initial grandstanding and the reality. We all remember how they "threatened" Debian, then how they promised that they would overtake Debian in a week and how everyone would immediately migrate to Devuan because, apparently, everyone obsesses about sticking with an archaic OS designed in 1972.

That was then. Now, of course, their impact on Debian and RedHat's user base is below any discernable statistical error and Devuan has joined the cohort of obscure me-too distros that no-one really cares about, especially not upstream software developers.

So yes, they have their developer summit. Bless them. As long as they have some users, they can prosper in their niche. That doesn't change the fact that their "init freedom" mantra is akin to those who swore that they would stick with MS-DOS and would never start using the NT kernel, because reasons.

But if you want pointing out the discrepancies between the initial grandstanding and the reality, I can take out a lot of companies that made even bolder claims but no one said nothing, for example I remember one in particular that promised a shiny and powerful mobile phone, a converging experience through all devices and a super brilliant DE and eventually threw everything in the garbage...

Devuan has been creating because a pool of Debian Sys Admin were skeptical about systemd and the lacking of manners from the systemd devs contributed to make what is natural in floos: a fork. They switched from sysvinit to openRC. Now the debate is not anymore between systemd vs sysvinit but systemd vs openrc, and of course I don't want entering in this battle field, I can only say is if you prefer handle your server through scripts instead of a monolithic control center does make it sense, because if fails a service it is something isolated while if fails systemd or any components that rely upon it fails all your system. There a lot of people that prefer working with script and are switching from Debian to Devuan, but you can't see them because those people do not belongs to Red Hat, Suse, Canonical etc...

The success of Devuan is true and if take a look around yourself, you can see everyday new distro based on Devuan, and now all the derivates based on apt/deb are Ubuntu based or Devuan based.

[starshipeleven]

"His analysis is on point".

Did you fully understand his claims? Because I have the feeling that you didn't.

For the sake of clarity, I'll point out that he claimed RELATION between two things, but this does NOT mean that every mental ill is anti-systemd NOR that every anti-systemd is mentallly ill. He also said that there aren't valid arguments against systemd, which is more debatable but still close enough, so it gets a pass from me.

It's like 7 posts into a thread of systemd where the usual morons posted the same nonsense they usually post, plus something new and exciting like Weasel that told us his epic fail at using Arch in a VM and then proceeded to blame it on systemd.

But someone pointing out the obvious is a troll with a hidden agenda, and people agreeing with him are also Illuminati. Hmm, sounds about right.

[Britoid]

But if you want pointing out the discrepancies between the initial grandstanding and the reality, I can take out a lot of companies that made even bolder claims but no one said nothing, for example I remember one in particular that promised a shiny and powerful mobile phone, a converging experience through all devices and a super brilliant DE and eventually threw everything in the garbage...

Devuan has been creating because a pool of Debian Sys Admin were skeptical about systemd and the lacking of manners from the systemd devs contributed to make what is natural in floos: a fork. They switched from sysvinit to openRC. Now the debate is not anymore between systemd vs sysvinit but systemd vs openrc, and of course I don't want entering in this battle field, I can only say is if you prefer handle your server through scripts instead of a monolithic control center does make it sense, because if fails a service it is something isolated while if fails systemd or any components that rely upon it fails all your system. There a lot of people that prefer working with script and are switching from Debian to Devuan, but you can't see them because those people do not belongs to Red Hat, Suse, Canonical etc...

The success of Devuan is true and if take a look around yourself, you can see everyday new distro based on Devuan, and now all the derivates based on apt/deb are Ubuntu based or Devuan based.

Lmao success?

The project will never grow to anything except to please a few neckbeards who still think it's the 90s. A system built on shell scripts is an awful idea, there's a reason Windows and OS X both stopped using DOS/Shell scripts.

If you're going to complain about something monolithic, might as well stop using Linux too. That's as monolithic (too monolithic imho) as it comes.

[Weasel]

3 issues here:

-why aren't you using a chroot for compiling like everyone else (this is easymode on Arch as it's literally their install tutorial that teaches you how to use a chroot to install it), as a chroot does not need any kernel or init or anything more than what you ACTUALLY need, so even if you are a noob and must save space for some reason you are still covered.

Because I don't have arch on my main machine so of course the point of VMs is to test stuff out. And btw I specifically did not want to use the same kernel but that's besides the point here, didn't feel like it was worth mentioning.

-why are you blaming systemd for a packaging issue in Arch (and this isn't the first time the fuckers break systemd packages)? I mean that's Arch packagers changing name of the systemd library package and causing a conflict and massive breakage on update, which is imho VERY BAD as it's a core library, how is that a systemd issue?

Because I don't care if it is its fault or not, the point is that it always gets in my way. And it is always ONLY systemd. Granted I didn't have many issues at all but 2 out of 2 issues and BOTH are systemd kind of grinds my gears. Can't call it coincidence.

-why ar you using a distro you are a noob with?

That's why it's a VM.

[trek]

You haven't looked at laptops in the last decade?

obviously not, they are crap hardware

And even then a lot of cards that do claim "hardware mixing" are in fact software mixing in the driver (on Windows).

don't buy crap hardware

[Weasel]

which makes you an idiot, it's that simple

Yes, spoken like a true systemd fanboy/zealot/ass kisser. Call someone an idiot for wanting stuff to "just work" and not get in his way.

I didn't look for systemd, I didn't want to touch it, didn't mention it anywhere in what I did on that VM, and yet somehow it always ends up picking a fight with me.