It's Time To Admit It: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware

[Awesomeness]

A new release is needed for OpenBSD, NetBSD, FreeBSD, DragonFly BSD, and TrueOS. Maybe other operating systems that use X.Org Server and don't have Wayland.

OpenBSD has https://www.xenocara.org/ and all these OSes need to get their act together and finally support Wayland. Wayland switched from LGPLv2 to MIT License to accommodate the BSDs and barely anything happened in all those years. FreeBSD is furthest along, NetBSD just started, and security-focused OpenBSD is apparently just fine working around X11 bugs instead of tackling the underlying cause.

[Awesomeness]

The only problem is KDE Wayland isn't a very nice experience unless you're doing some crap like a video kiosk so I have next to no experience using it outside of trying it out and saying to myself "not yet".

Fedora KDE is looking to switch to Wayland by default. openSUSE's Plasma Wayland session is that everything runs using XWayland and as a transitional step that was actually mostly fine (Klipper not working was the biggest flaw, IMO) but it's time to abandon that approach with 5.20 now being out.

[kpedersen]

and security-focused OpenBSD is apparently just fine working around X11 bugs instead of tackling the underlying cause.

They have Xenocara which is a "semi-fork" from Xorg a while back to fix bugs in there too and provide a saner monolithic build system (http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/xenocara/). The underlying "cause" of security issues is that it works across a network and is open for a lot of programs to interact. Unfortunately those are also features that a useful workstation requires. Sure, if all you do is open up a web browser or run a couple of "apps" or Steam DRM games, you can make do without but there is more to computing than that.

I am also inclined to believe that once Wayland is used (i.e the stats suggest it really isn't yet https://linux-hardware.org/index.php...display_server) then the BSDs will already have good support. But we are probably talking 5-10 years time before that is even necessary. I even predict that something actually better than Wayland (and even Xorg) will come along and replace Wayland before it ever reaches mass adoption.

Wayland has been good though. It has shown us that things might one day change over time and even something as substantial as a display server may one day uproot. So portable code which is light on dependencies is good.

[skeevy420]

Fedora KDE is looking to switch to Wayland by default. openSUSE's Plasma Wayland session is that everything runs using XWayland and as a transitional step that was actually mostly fine (Klipper not working was the biggest flaw, IMO) but it's time to abandon that approach with 5.20 now being out.

Not sure the exact Plasma version, whatever Rawhide had two weeks ago, had panel flickering like crazy with its Wayland session. I only ran Rawhide for the day and Wayland for the minute.

Every time I run another distribution I think, "This is nice. I miss pacman."

[R41N3R]

I'm only worried that many XWayland features are not getting released too due to the missing X.org releases. This is a big issue for games.

Regarding KDE I hope that they will will focus now on Wayland to get some of the fundamental issues and bugs solved.

[Awesomeness]

I don't get the defending the Xorg argument. It's really outdated and it's literally standing on it's last legs as shown that no one wants to work with it. Only end-users will defend it's features. It's not a bad thing to have a "feature" complete project but if you defend Xorg then you cannot ignore it's technological side either or you fall into a cognitive dissonance situation.

Those are the same kind of people who think that Covid is a hoax. They've not yet been infected (or had it without symptoms), so if it's not been bad for them, it's not so bad for everyone. The state of the X.org code base is undeniable. Wayland is not some project by outside developers – it is the solution by X.org developers themselves.

[Awesomeness]

This is a big issue for games.

Same with the BSDs: Game engines and WINE need to get their act together. It's almost 2021 and they're still dragging their feet.

[Guest]

Old code bases never die, they just fade away.

What is dead may never die

[c117152]

OpenBSD has https://www.xenocara.org/ and all these OSes need to get their act together and finally support Wayland. Wayland switched from LGPLv2 to MIT License to accommodate the BSDs and barely anything happened in all those years. FreeBSD is furthest along, NetBSD just started, and security-focused OpenBSD is apparently just fine working around X11 bugs instead of tackling the underlying cause.

Hyperbola ported Xenocara to linux so I don't see any reason why it can't be used instead of X.org considering it solves X's security issues.

[skeevy420]

What is dead may never die

Let Wayland your servant be born again from the C, as you were. Bless him with salt. Bless him with stone. Bless him with steel.