KDE Wayland Is Not Yet Interested In NVIDIA's EGLStreams Approach

[starshipeleven]

You would be surprised, or maybe not, how many people use Linux not because their prime motivator is open source ideology, but because Linux is free, doesnt have viruses like Windows and 99.9% of applications are also free, sure most of them develop a certain respect for the open source ideology, but a portion of Linux users are consumers deep down, what does a Linux user do when he starts making big bucks? He buys a Mac and enjoys sipping his cocktail in the Apple's walled garden. A bit of sarcasm there, but you get my point.

You would be surprised by how few pure freeloaders actually like the fact that most of the windows applications they torrent on their pirated windows PC won't work on a Linux OS.

Really, TWO fully free OS and much bigger application ecosystem for both (also free) can be found from the usual torrent sites, and most freeloaders do that.

All people on Linux must have some kind of good reason to put up with all the shit that Linux demands, and the complexity, and less hardware support, and less applications, and so on. Really, on Windows, stuff Just Works ^TM there are no problems, all applications work on all versions of Windows, every day is sunny and air smells of seaside.

So on linux you get mostly sympathyzers of opensource ideology, and paranoid people of various kinds. Most of the flamewars happen between people that have different degrees of sympathy of opensource.

[starshipeleven]

damn, an unapproved post for schmidtbag above my last post.

[Temar]

... they only care about features/stability/compatibility.

Isn't that true for the majority of any user base (even Linux)? Most people want to get a job done, they don't care about open source or closed source drivers.

You are basically confirming schmidtbag's point.

[pgoetz]

Also keep in mind that Wayland does not require GBM, that's just what Weston uses. And while GBM is tied to Mesa and is a standard in the Linux/BSD world, EGLStream is tied to EGL which also covers Windows.
Or maybe everyone will simply agree to move the whole thing to Vulkan instead

It appears that both Mesa and Wayland support EGL? http://ppaalanen.blogspot.com/2012/0...and-stack.html

[pgoetz]

So, watching this video it seems like EGL Streams is a better open source solution than GBM. Maybe the other GPU manufacturer's should cave to nVidia in this instance.

https://www.x.org/videos/XDC2014/RitgerEGLNonMesa.webm

[Luke_Wolf]

No... the point of Linux's existence is freedom. Freedom to modify, freedom to redistribute, and freedom of choice. A company like Nvidia creating closed-source drivers does not detract from your freedoms of Linux as an OS, just as running a closed-source game on Steam doesn't.

Total and utter bullcrap, you are talking of BSDs that have permissive licenses.
Linux's whole point is stated by its license, GPL v2, STRONG copyleft license. You are NOT supposed to run closed drivers on it, and any modification you ship to people MUST be redistributed also in source form, which is NOT freedom, it is enforcement of Torvald's will on you.

You are both wrong the point of Linux is to be a Minix Clone for 386s as per:

From: [email protected] (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: What would you like to see most in minix?
Summary: small poll for my new operating system
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 25 Aug 91 20:57:08 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

Hello everybody out there using minix –

I’m doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won’t be big and
professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing
since april, and is starting to get ready. I’d like any feedback on
things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
(same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
among other things).

I’ve currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
This implies that I’ll get something practical within a few months, and
I’d like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
are welcome, but I won’t promise I’ll implement them

Linus ([email protected])

PS. Yes – it’s free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never
will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that’s all I have :-(.

Anything and everything beyond that is bullshit that other people are projecting onto Linux

[Theriverlethe]

Crap, we're supposed to be using AT hard drives?!?
Seriously, Nvidia should either use the standard or agree to port EVERY compositor, toolkit, etc. to their driver. We're just talking about windowing systems here, right? Nvidia's buffer optimization concern should be a moot point on modern hardware. Anything that requires high performance will be using OpenGL, OpenCL, Vulkan, et al., right?

[starshipeleven]

Isn't that true for the majority of any user base (even Linux)? Most people want to get a job done, they don't care about open source or closed source drivers.

No, for a company the decision to use Linux on a server or an embedded device does not carry anywhere near the amount of compromises that a desktop user must make.

Linux on servers is usually better than Windows for example, and for embedded it is various orders of magnitude better than windows.

I'm just saying that people that accept a huge amount of compromises and aggravations to run Linux desktop that is painfully inferior to Windows must have a decent reason, and usually it is love of opensource or paranoia.
People that "just want to get a job done" won't touch linux with a 10ft pole.

[Cerberus]

You would be surprised by how few pure freeloaders actually like the fact that most of the windows applications they torrent on their pirated windows PC won't work on a Linux OS.

Really, TWO fully free OS and much bigger application ecosystem for both (also free) can be found from the usual torrent sites, and most freeloaders do that.

All people on Linux must have some kind of good reason to put up with all the shit that Linux demands, and the complexity, and less hardware support, and less applications, and so on. Really, on Windows, stuff Just Works ^TM there are no problems, all applications work on all versions of Windows, every day is sunny and air smells of seaside.

So on linux you get mostly sympathyzers of opensource ideology, and paranoid people of various kinds. Most of the flamewars happen between people that have different degrees of sympathy of opensource.

Of course they pirate Windows and games for it, they need their gaming needs satisfied also for free, but I disagree with the putting up with Linux part because today Linux is fairly easy to install and use for someone with at least basic knowledge of how computers work, and you are forgetting that average user does nothing else on their computers but surf the Internet, listen to music, watch movies and perhaps write a few documents or edit a few photos, all that can be done without hassle on Linux and without much learning, browsers are even the same as on Windows, VLC is the same, LibreOffice is a good clone of Microsoft Office, they are all set for freeloading. If they know how to install and use Windows they know enough to install and use a user friendly distribution like Ubuntu or one of its clones like Mint, it requires minimal effort to learn a few Linux specific things.

Why shouldnt they use Windows for that then? Because they got one virus too many that screwed up their OS and data, they dont want that to happen again and because of that they will invest a little bit of effort and use Linux for everything except gaming. Plus there is that cool factor of using a geek OS, if they use Linux it makes them feel superior to their friends who use Windows for everything, makes them appear more knowledgeable, they become the new IT guru in their surroundings and to their family.

And I am not joking because I seen this type of behavior first hand, people using Linux because it gives them peace of mind for surfing and to appear geeky to other people, they dont know much about open source other than it is "free" and that its an OS for geeky folks. Over the years they either grow into a open source fan and a true Linux user, get frustrated with too many bugs, give up on Linux and return to Windows or they buy a Mac. People that come to Phoronix and similar portals do not belong to this category usually which is why they have heated debates about Linux related things. These people I talk about have no idea what are Wayland and Mir, they barely know what is X.org, they merely use their OS for daily tasks without knowing much about its innards.

I will give you one example-a girl used Ubuntu for a few years, then got a recommendation to try OpenSuse, she downloaded OpenSuse Gnome and installed it and used it for a while, I asked her if she likes OpenSuse and she said yes while obviously referring to Gnome desktop environment, I asked her do you know the difference between a distribution and desktop environment? She looked at me confused and didnt know that distribution and a desktop environment are not the same thing. When I told her she can have Gnome on Ubuntu she was like "wow really? I thought this desktop thing is Linux", for her desktop enviroment was the same thing as distribution, she didnt even know what exactly is kernel yet she used Linux for years successfully. She is a more extreme example but many variations of this case exist out there, not to mention people who had someone else install Linux for them and teach them how to use it.

[starshipeleven]

You are both wrong the point of Linux is to be a Minix Clone for 386s

That's more what it was supposed to be like 25 years ago. Anyway that's tangential to my point, you could try to claim it was supposed to be a teapot and it wouldn't matter.
Let's say it is supposed to be a minix clone for the sake of showing how your bs is completely irrelevant.
It is still using GPL v2. So it is supposed to be a "minix clone"/"fine porcelain teapot" where you are NOT supposed to run closed drivers on, and any modification you ship to people MUST be redistributed also in source form, which is NOT freedom, it is enforcement of Torvald's will on you.