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Xfce's Wayland Compositor Code Continues Improving

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  • #11
    Originally posted by blackshard View Post

    Wayland is reference protocol, Weston is the "proof of concept" implementation. Weston is not meant to be used as a daily gear, but as an example implementation of Weston protocol features. Or am I missing something?
    Well, I think that everyone that come to read Phoronix articles and forum is aware of it.

    The critics some of us direct at it, is that being just that was stupid, as it lead to many duplicated efforts, what could be easily seen in advance. I would add that letting more high level objects out of it was bad too, but many people much more smart than me don't agree on it.

    Frankly, I find it embarrassing that such important foundation took the path it went to, it means that it lacked proper analysis of modern DE requirements and planning.

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    • #12
      Lol even birdie will have to use Wayland sooner than later

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      • #13
        Originally posted by openminded View Post
        Lol even birdie will have to use Wayland sooner than later
        If it's stable and featureful as XFCE's Xorg session is, why not? Lastly unlike Mutter/Gnome/KWin/KDE developers, XFCE developers have made it clear that XFCE Xorg's session will be maintained for as long as humanly possible.

        So far, nothing has been featureful, not even Gnome. I don't want to google the Internet trying to understand how to run xranrd, xkill, xwd, xwit, xdotool and use apps like KeePassX which currently does not work under either Gnome, or KDE because Wayland was never designed with the desktop in mind. The way Wayland is implemented is 100% anti-open source. Whereas with X11, there's one Xorg which is reusable between all DEs and WMs, Wayland basically made everyone reimplement everything. Sharing is an option but Gnome and KDE seem not to be interested, besides it's not correct/good/classical sharing, it's more like static linking with a ton of your own code.

        People in other threads here who claim "Wayland works for me" sound like typical Open Source fans who can be best described as egocentric megalomaniacs. That's actually the primary bane of Open Source - "If it works for me" (and "me" is often "an IT specialist who does 95% of stuff in console") "it must work for everyone". This is so bloody ridiculous it's just mind numbing. You can describe something as working if it works for your grandma and kids with no formal training or education, without Googling or reading manuals. That's what Windows, Mac OS, iOS, ChromeOS and Android are. Linux, specially with Wayland, is not that.
        Last edited by avis; 14 May 2023, 11:28 AM.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by avis View Post

          In 2026 maybe. As an alpha version. With a ton of crashes and missing features.

          XFCE needs to run a fundraising campaign.
          Why not just merge efforts with MATE instead? They share a lot of the same goals.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by NobodyXu View Post

            Why don't they use wlroots though?
            It's quite mature compared to weston and can create a very much usable desktop (swaywm).
            Or Mir?

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            • #16
              Originally posted by Vistaus View Post

              Why not just merge efforts with MATE instead? They share a lot of the same goals.
              This sounds like a good idea but I've no idea how to connect all these people. There's not a single common mailing list, perhaps someone could just find the emails of all the responsible people and email/CC them. I wouldn't volunteer since my English is horrible and I'm afraid to say something inappropriate.

              Originally posted by Vistaus View Post

              Or Mir?
              AFAIK Mir is dead.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by avis View Post

                If it's stable and featureful as XFCE's Xorg session is, why not? Lastly unlike Mutter/Gnome/KWin/KDE developers, XFCE developers have made it clear that XFCE Xorg's session will be maintained for as long as humanly possible.

                So far, nothing has been featureful, not even Gnome. I don't want to google the Internet trying to understand how to run xranrd, xkill, xwd, xwit, xdotool and use apps like KeePassX which currently does not work under either Gnome, or KDE because Wayland was never designed with the desktop in mind. The way Wayland is implemented is 100% anti-open source. Whereas with X11, there's one Xorg which is reusable between all DEs and WMs, Wayland basically made everyone reimplement everything. Sharing is an option but Gnome and KDE seem not to be interested, besides it's not correct/good/classical sharing, it's more like static linking with a ton of your own code.

                People in other threads here who claim "Wayland works for me" sound like typical Open Source fans who can be best described as egocentric megalomaniacs. That's actually the primary bane of Open Source - "If it works for me" (and "me" is often "an IT specialist who does 95% of stuff in console") "it must work for everyone". This is so bloody ridiculous it's just mind numbing. You can describe something as working if it works for your grandma and kids with no formal training or education, without Googling or reading manuals. That's what Windows, Mac OS, iOS, ChromeOS and Android are. Linux, specially with Wayland, is not that.
                I to know how to do the things you say on Xorg I had to googling and it is like that for any new software I use.
                The philosophy behind free and open source software is to tell people "stop complaining" "if you don't like it develop something you like BUT DO IT!, and but stop complaining".‚Äč

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                • #18
                  I am running parts of XFCE desktop with Wayfire compositor - and it is working more or less OK. It is not an issue with missing compositor - the issue is that the programs and applets of XFCE are not ready to run without X11 support on pure wayland. And adding one more compositor will not solve the issue.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by rhysperry111 View Post

                    Their Open Collective pages have plenty of donations sitting there waiting to be used, so I feel that it's less of a money thing and just maintainers' time. Of course, please do donate to show that you love the work that they are doing.

                    Xfce is a lightweight desktop environment for UNIX-like operating systems. It aims to be fast and low on system resources, while still being visually appealing and user friendly. Update May 2023: At this time, we are temporarily pausing donations.

                    Xfce is a lightweight desktop environment for UNIX-like operating systems. It aims to be fast and low on system resources, while still being visually appealing and user friendly. Update May 2023: At this time, we are temporarily pausing donations.

                    Yeah, the Xfce team is a skeleton crew (isn't it only one person? I'm not even sure). Ironically for being such a popular desktop, it's maintenance is slower than Xorg itself.
                    Kind of why I gave up on it, nobody wants to develop for it. Anyone who can or would just goes off to make their own DE instead.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by blackshard View Post

                      Wayland is reference protocol, Weston is the "proof of concept" implementation. Weston is not meant to be used as a daily gear, but as an example implementation of Weston protocol features. Or am I missing something?
                      You are so confused. Wayland is the protocol and Weston is the reference implementation for it for others to model their own after or possibly even build upon.

                      "Reference protocol" is not English.

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