Originally posted by kpedersen
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GNOME X.Org vs. Wayland Performance + Power Usage On Fedora 32 With AMD Renoir Laptop
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Originally posted by Volta View Post
On Gnome workspaces are something usual.
And this have nothing to do with either X11 or Wayland, since it behave the same on both.
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Originally posted by Vistaus View Post
He doesn't have any true examples. He's a Wayland troll, so we should stop feeding him.
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Originally posted by bug77 View PostThis is not that relevant and also not technically true: Weston is the same age as Wayland.
Originally posted by bug77 View PostI thought all that matters is if can replace X while also offering roughly the same experience. And by "replace" I mean work where X already works.
Originally posted by bug77 View PostYeah, well, broad support and "phones" just goes to show how much you have to stretch to make your argument. Wayland is used in Jolla and they no longer make phones.
Originally posted by bug77 View PostFirst of all, Wayland (or X) are not part of an operating system. They're just user-space applications (technically, Wayland implementations are).
Originally posted by bug77 View PostSecond of all, implementing for the second time is the easiest task in the programming world. But instead of working X's kinks out, Wayland set out to replace a de-facto standard with a generic specification that everyone is now required to implement. That's not going to work out fine, no matter what you're replacing. Just for fun, imagine if instead of being a concrete implementation, systemd was a spec and every distro had to implement it (and that right there is a real complex part of the operating system).Last edited by tomas; 14 June 2020, 02:12 PM.
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Originally posted by acobar View Post
Really? Can you explain what/which is it?
X11 supporters can be seen in the same light in regards to moving over to Wayland or accepting Wayland as the way forward. It took them all those years to get their religion where is is now and someone wants to come in and replace that with something new??? Yeah, the Roman's never really made it past Hadrian's Wall so some still believed in the old gods and held out, but eventually, a millennium later, Rome's priests did make their way into Scotland and Ireland and the last of the holdouts were converted into believers of the new god.
We still celebrate Christmas in December because of pegan ritual holdouts. Our days of the week, except one, are all named after Norse gods. The one day is Saturn. Saturn's Day. Saturday. So even 2000 years after the Romans invaded England and started pushing Christianity on everyone, our days of the week are still holdouts from the old gods. Just some more examples of how religious people are resistant of change and that sometimes an XWinterSolstice is necessary so you bring in enough of the old gods to get people STFU about it all. Are you still getting high and boning in the dead of Winter? Yes. Then STFU. XWinterSolstice is code for Xmas for those who can't keep up.
That said, a lot of us are fully aware that Wayland isn't 100% ready for every use-case and that it also took X11 many, many, many years to get where it is to cover all these varied use-cases. The people expecting Wayland to get to where X11 is overnight has always been, to me at least, a laughable stance. These days, though, Wayland is ready for most use-cases so people against it have to dig for very specific bugs and examples to point out why Wayland is wrong or bad or not the way forward. We could all scour GNOME & KDE bug trackers and point out random X11 bugs and spew the same fud to push an anti-X11 agenda.
That's another way they're alike -- they both tend to spew fud to push their agenda.
Anyways, that's the joke/explanation. It helps to be able to see things a bit abstract to get comments like that and this.
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I don't think people in favor of X11 are religious, for the most part. They just want something that works reliably, supports their use-cases and is customizable.
Wayland is unfortunately still kind of a white elephant. Designed to be elegant and small, with embedded systems in mind... and entirely ignoring what desktop environments need. I use Wayland on a desktop system every day, but damn, it's still extremely rough around the edges in quite obvious ways, and many features are missing completely (e.g. color management). After such a long time of development, that is definitely not a good sign.
I don't think a new protocol or display server can fix it, though. The failure of Wayland isn't so much a technical problem as it is a structural problem of the Linux development community.
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