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GNOME X.Org vs. Wayland Performance + Power Usage On Fedora 32 With AMD Renoir Laptop

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  • #71
    To check if you run firefox in wayland mode, check about:support for "Window Protocol"
    There are two options, wayland and wayland/drm depending on your about:config settings.
    Testing in my Pinebook Pro with Gnome 3.36, so actual lowest end hardware.
    Xorg/Xwayland is unusable, completely unusable.
    "wayland" is a big improvement but not smooth.
    "wayland/drm" is damn smooth, it is running near to perfection and scrolling just makes fun.

    It could be that Michael tested accidentally in Xwayland mode, or maybe he should try again with wayland/drm mode.

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    • #72
      Originally posted by tomas View Post

      That is the right attitude.



      As I said. I think it's dishonest to claim that it has been 12 years. Or even 10. A specification of a protocol being 12 years old has nothing to do with the state of the compositors implementing that specification. The first gnome release with support for wayland was 4 years ago. Also, I realize that replacing something as fundamental as the display system is not going to be done just like that. Perhaps it's because I have programming as a profession myself, but I'm not that surprised that wayland is taking this long time to gradually replace a beast like X11, and also that it's not there yet for all (relevant) use cases. It will be, however. Eventually.
      Of course it will be. The problem here is just a bunch of narrow-minded religious zealots claiming it already is.

      Just because in their small little workflow it is working.

      And because some of these are a bunch of nerds used to "not seeing actual issues" (because able to solve some and circumvent others), they believe it is for the common user, although it is blatant many issues (fairly basic in their use cases) are being complained about.
      And said common user will be lost when he can't do action X or Y. He also won't care if it's wayland's fault or compositor's fault or apps fault. wayland's readiness involves the whole ecosystem, down to DEs and apps. That's what the user cares about, his direct workflow, not whose responsibility it is along the chain when it doesn't work.

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      • #73
        Originally posted by Volta View Post
        Mistakes like what?
        I put that in my post already, but here it is again: they changed too much at the same time and they did so with no regard to whether the rest of the world could/would keep up.
        As a rule of thumb, when you change more than one thing at a time, you're looking for trouble. Wayland found it (and I hope it manages to get out of it, eventually).
        Originally posted by Volta View Post
        To X11 fanboys: can you explain why 30 years later I still can't use alt+Tab with Quake live in Steam? Under Wayland it works just fine.
        Since we're talking two almost completely different ways to go about desktop compositors, it would be really weird if we could replicate each and every feature 1:1. Still, Wayland being the new kid on the block, it bears the burden of having to prove it to be able to walk into Xorg's shoes and not the other way around.

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        • #74
          To all the A N A L people on each side, just dropping this here:

          Gnome Wayland Session still launch Xwayland by default, so you have the wayland apps running an the X11 apps running as well.

          If you want a fair X11 only and Wayland only benchmark, wait for 3.38 or 3.40 when you can have Xwayland ondemand only and gnome-shell finally can function only with wayland.

          Also remember Firefox implementation is far from optimized on wayland and performance may vary wildly depending on your mesa version(i use fedora firefox on Arch from a while ago, for example LLVM git seems to be way more responsive than when using LLVM 10 among other issue i've been dealing between releases)

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          • #75
            Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
            Contributors matter. They all moved to Wayland.
            Even Wayland contributors work on XWayland, and much to your chagrin, people still make contributions to XServer that have nothing to do with Wayland. Maybe you want to break the news to all these devs that they are "unpeople"? https://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/log/

            Opinions doesn’t matter
            Well-informed, fact-based opinion certainly matters. You should try having one some time. It will make you feel good.
            Then again, if you're just after trolling lulz, it may not be effective. Hmmm. Nevermind, just stick with spouting BS.

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            • #76
              Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Post
              To all the A N A L people on each side, just dropping this here:

              Gnome Wayland Session still launch Xwayland by default, so you have the wayland apps running an the X11 apps running as well.

              If you want a fair X11 only and Wayland only benchmark, wait for 3.38 or 3.40 when you can have Xwayland ondemand only and gnome-shell finally can function only with wayland.

              Also remember Firefox implementation is far from optimized on wayland and performance may vary wildly depending on your mesa version(i use fedora firefox on Arch from a while ago, for example LLVM git seems to be way more responsive than when using LLVM 10 among other issue i've been dealing between releases)
              This is meaningless. Launching Xwayland on demand may save a few mb of ram, but it does not influence Wayland Clients at all.
              All you need to care about is if Firefox is running in Xorg, wayland or wayland/drm mode.

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              • #77
                Originally posted by DanL View Post

                Even Wayland contributors work on XWayland, and much to your chagrin, people still make contributions to XServer that have nothing to do with Wayland. Maybe you want to break the news to all these devs that they are "unpeople"? https://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/log/


                Well-informed, fact-based opinion certainly matters. You should try having one some time. It will make you feel good.
                Then again, if you're just after trolling lulz, it may not be effective. Hmmm. Nevermind, just stick with spouting BS.
                Sure, it is important that Legacy X11 apps run well under wayland too and I guess I can say they do well after countless hours of playing games big and small under Xwayland.
                But Native Wayland is simply faster, it is especially noticeable playing extremely fast rhythm games like osu!.

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                • #78
                  Firefox Wayland has hardware video acceleration [ while X11 doesn't ], maybe you should test power usage of that?

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                  • #79
                    Originally posted by tildearrow View Post

                    X11 Just Works.
                    It works, but it does not work well and there is no way to fix it.
                    The only way this could actually be solved is to write a completely new implementation of the X11 Specification, but then we can just stick with Wayland, it already has 2 good implementations.

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                    • #80
                      Originally posted by Alexmitter View Post

                      It works, but it does not work well and there is no way to fix it.
                      The only way this could actually be solved is to write a completely new implementation of the X11 Specification, but then we can just stick with Wayland, it already has 2 good implementations.
                      Wayland has 0 good implementations and by design can never have a good implementation

                      X11 has 0 good implementations and by design can never had a good implementation.

                      Wayland doesn't work today, X11 does. Both are crap but one works now. Hopefully Arcan can fix this mess since Mir is dead.

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