System76 Bringing Out "Pangolin" As An AMD Renoir Linux Laptop

[chithanh]

Unfortunately the specs do not mention important aspects, such as the HDMI version or whether the USB-C port is capable of Power Delivery and DisplayPort (and if so, the DisplayPort version).

It's nice to see System76 finally introducing an AMD Ryzen laptop though a bit unfortunate it's launching so late after the other major laptop players with their Renoir laptop models while still priced at a premium. At January's CES 2021 virtual keynote is where AMD is expected to already announce their Ryzen 5000 series mobile processors. With next-gen Ryzen 5000 mobile CPUs just potentially weeks away and given the incredible uplift we've found out of Zen 3, those forthcoming parts will likely be very compelling. Hopefully System76's next iteration of their AMD laptops will be able to arrive more punctually now that they have left the gate with their first mobile AMD design.

The expected Ryzen 5000 mobile launch at CES will probably include Lucienne (aka. Renoir refresh), which is Zen2 but a drop-in replacement for Renoir. That should keep those lazy OEMs happy, at the cost of confusing buyers. Shame on AMD for that.

It's not even clear though whether Cezanne (Zen3) will launch at the same time, maybe that will come later. If I had to guess, Lucienne at CES and Cezanne/Van Gogh at Computex but that is just my baseless speculation.

won't be getting the open source firmware nor the disabled ME with that

System76 cannot disable Intel ME. No OEM can do that, only Intel can.
The HAP bit that some OEMs set is just asking the ME nicely to shut down itself at some point during the boot process.
https://twitter.com/rootkovska/statu...64351008395264

[M@GOid]

Regarding to the build quality, I wouldn't be too harsh on System76/Clevos. Any manufacturer, including Lenovo, Dell, HP, Asus, etc, had done some stinkers. Consumer grade laptops had degraded in quality over the years, in my experience fixing them. To the point I started recommending only enterprise grade stuff, even used ones, to the people who cannot afford them.

Also, breaking 3 screw mounts is the fault of the user, not the machine. If your hand is that heavy, you better asking others to do it for you.

[Mez']

I registered for being notified when it comes out.

I will pick my next laptop in 2021 with 3 criteria in mind beside the price: AMD CPU, Linux preinstalled and ISO BE azerty keyboard with numpad.
I can already dismiss Lenovo, HP, Dell or Acer as I don't like these manufacturers, their layout, design or quality. And unfortunately Asus (I'm a very satisfied customer though) or Toshiba don't have pre-installed Linux systems.

Hence it'll be either Tuxedo or System76 for my next laptop. Probably Tuxedo because they have the keyboard I expect. But hopefully System 76 gives us some options.

[moriel5]

Unfortunately the specs do not mention important aspects, such as the HDMI version or whether the USB-C port is capable of Power Delivery and DisplayPort (and if so, the DisplayPort version).

If it the same laptop as the Tuxedo mentioned a few posts ago, only one of the USB-C ports supports DP-alt mode.

The expected Ryzen 5000 mobile launch at CES will probably include Lucienne (aka. Renoir refresh), which is Zen2 but a drop-in replacement for Renoir. That should keep those lazy OEMs happy, at the cost of confusing buyers. Shame on AMD for that.

It's not even clear though whether Cezanne (Zen3) will launch at the same time, maybe that will come later. If I had to guess, Lucienne at CES and Cezanne/Van Gogh at Computex but that is just my baseless speculation.

For now, it would appear that CES will show Lucienne/Cezanne at CES, perhaps also a prototype Van Gogh, since according to the launch window of 2020Q1 that is shown to me by CPU-L (an Android app that shows an organized databases of CPUs/APUs by Intel and AMD, based upon aggregation of sources' both official and leaks), it would make sense that Lucienne and Cezanne are nearing the end of their testing, while Van Gogh only recently leaked, would make sense for a later unveiling.
Obviously, this is just speculation at this point, which has to be taken with a grain of salt, however it sounds pretty logical.

System76 cannot disable Intel ME. No OEM can do that, only Intel can.
The HAP bit that some OEMs set is just asking the ME nicely to shut down itself at some point during the boot process.
https://twitter.com/rootkovska/statu...64351008395264

While it is true that no one is disabling the ME, since it is currently impossible, System76 and Puri.sm are not only setting the HAP bit, but also removing as much of the ME as possible without damaging usability, as confirmed by both companies in the link you had posted.

The main problem with cleaning the ME on Gen12

[moriel5]

I registered for being notified when it comes out.

I will pick my next laptop in 2021 with 3 criterions in mind beside the price: AMD CPU, Linux preinstalled and ISO BE azerty keyboard with numpad.
I can already dismiss Lenovo, HP, Dell or Acer as I don't like these manufacturers, their layout, design or quality. And unfortunately Asus (I'm a very satisfied customer though) or Toshiba don't have pre-installed Linux systems.

Hence it'll be either Tuxedo or System76 for my next laptop. Probably Tuxedo because they have the keyboard I expect. But hopefully System 76 gives us some options.

Asus does have Linux options, however they can only be bought retail, and might only be limited to the low end (back when I used to work at a friend's repair shop, which also sells new PCs, we sold a few of those, after installing Windows on them).

[mdedetrich]

They can say what they want, the hardware doesn't lie...

gazelle ~ # lspci -v | grep CLEVO
Subsystem: CLEVO/KAPOK Computer Xeon E3-1200 v6/7th Gen Core Processor Host Bridge/DRAM Registers
Subsystem: CLEVO/KAPOK Computer HD Graphics 630
Subsystem: CLEVO/KAPOK Computer 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family USB 3.0 xHCI Controller
Subsystem: CLEVO/KAPOK Computer 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family Thermal Subsystem
Subsystem: CLEVO/KAPOK Computer HM170/QM170 Chipset SATA Controller [AHCI Mode]
Capabilities: [90] Subsystem: CLEVO/KAPOK Computer 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port
Capabilities: [90] Subsystem: CLEVO/KAPOK Computer 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port
Capabilities: [90] Subsystem: CLEVO/KAPOK Computer 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port
Capabilities: [90] Subsystem: CLEVO/KAPOK Computer 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port
Subsystem: CLEVO/KAPOK Computer HM175 Chipset LPC/eSPI Controller
Subsystem: CLEVO/KAPOK Computer 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family Power Management Controller
Subsystem: CLEVO/KAPOK Computer CM238 HD Audio Controller
Subsystem: CLEVO/KAPOK Computer 100 Series/C230 Series Chipset Family SMBus
Subsystem: CLEVO/KAPOK Computer RTL8411B PCI Express Card Reader
Subsystem: CLEVO/KAPOK Computer RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller

Thats besides the point, everyone knows the hardware is the same as a Clevo.

What system76 does however, is install custom firmware to make the OS more free and also to provide better support for Linux. For example they disable the Intel ME as much as they can (for Intel based laptops/CPUs) where as the other distributors don't do this. System76 also puts custom BIOS which has better handling for EC fan curves compared to other laptops (i.e. see https://twitter.com/jeremy_soller/st...54964549824512)

This is also what you are paying for, in some weird way System76 is like the mac of Linux. They put a premium on their laptops but they go out of their way to make sure the support in the laptop is better compared to if you got it from other Clevo branded laptops and this includes flashing custom firmware to make the hardware work better with Linux and/or also improve privacy.

Ontop of this point, System76 have stated that they would prefer to make their own hardware, but doing so is incredibly complicated and requires a lot of capital/logistics (for obvious reasons).

[Danielsan]

I have a S76 laptop but I think I am going to buy a Thinkpad next time... The thing the pissed me off the most is the fact that they have tied everything around Ubuntu and later POP... All those companies try to reach only new comers to linux but none of those offer a computer designed to install whatever distro you want by default, this mentality hits with the customer service they would like to provide or sell...

[creative]

I wonder if some of the gaming laptops out there with the R7 4800H get along just fine with most rolling release distributions. I have a family member that is due for a new laptop. Lenovo Legion 5 looks like it has a really sweet 144hz display builtin.

[Teggs]

If they designed (or chose parts) wisely, they should be able to just drop Zen 3 APUs into the same board, shouldn't they? It's not as if there was a socket or RAM change. System76 was late with Zen 2 laptops, but might be as early as they like with Zen 3 if that is the case.

Also, Pangolins are cute, but anyone who knows a person who died of Coronavirus is unlikely to want to own hardware with the name of the creature it supposedly came from.

[torsionbar28]

Also, Pangolins are cute, but anyone who knows a person who died of Coronavirus is unlikely to want to own hardware with the name of the creature it supposedly came from.

Don't blame the poor pangolin. The CCP is the reason we're in this mess.