Microsoft Adds Linux Support To Endpoint Manager

[jacob]

Jesus christ! It is inevitable that in the future the Linux ecosystem will heavily rely on microsoft stuff to an extent where there is no way around it. Maybe not necessarily for nerds in some basement but for the value-adding sector. It is obvious that this is the point of doing all that in the first place and why would you welcome that....

Embrace, Extend, Completely-Fucked-Up

If the Microsoft stuff along with the Google stuff etc. is fully open source, and it is, and if it allows people to use open source in the value add sector and not just as a toy for nerds in their parents' basement, then why wouldn't you welcome that?

[jacob]

So even if its is not an given fact - cui bono?. How does Microsoft profit by appealing to linux users? I have never heard of any large US Company at the stockmarket that has ever done something just pro bono at this large scale?

So are you saying that anyone who is not a nonprofit charity should be banned from open source? RedHat like Microsoft invest in FOSS because it makes them money. I think it's fantastic, and am very happy about that rather than seeing them investing the same efforts in proprietary software instead.

Intel, AMD & co invest in Linux because better Linux support = better processor sales. Google & Facebook invest in FOSS because they need to tailor it to their specific requirements and the resulting tech benefits everyone (cgroups, btrfs etc)

This is how open source was always intended to work

CEO to the shareholders : you know what!? we have hired 100s of Linux Developers to write Linux compatible Code ...costs X Millions yearly isn't it great?
Shareholders: ...and how is this going to make me more rich?
CEO : Linux is for the people - for everyone - cant you feel this warm sensation in your breast when you have done something just without ulterior motive?
Shareholders: Yes it was a heartattack....I should have bought Apple and Google shares instead

In reality:

CEO to shareholders: we have hired Linux developers. Costs X.

Shareholders: How is that going to make me rich?

CEO: we need an uber scalable platform to run our new uber data center. No existing products does what we need. We can do it with Linux for X amount of money, or we could build one from scratch for N*X.

Shareholders: but what's the ulterior motive?

CEO: the same as RedHat's: to make money.

Shareholders: cheers!

If Microsoft would really "luv" OpenSource they would provide Office for Linux, DirectX for Linux, NTFS native support on Linux, Support the Samba project ...etc.

DirectX for Linux already exists. Microsoft cooperates and helps the Samba project already. They haven't provided NTFS but they released the patents for ExFAT. Office is not impossible eventually (although personally I couldn't care less, I only use word processors and as a word processing LO Writer is superior to Word), in the meantime they released Edge. Oh and they contribute to Linux, to Rust, they released VS Code etc.

[Nth_man]

It doesn't matter what they do now, their locked in a mode where they will do anything to collect data on you like any evil corp these days.
anything they offer for free say like visual studio code is because they want to collect data on you.

if they were true friend and nice guy they would open source and freely license fat32, ntfs, directx, support only the first ISO office standard,
and more actions that would make us believe.

where is the windows multiboot loader support for other oses including linux ? don't see that coming from "our friend" ?

As some other people wrote:

MS... where is their support for Vulkan? MS still pushes DirectX lock-in junk. And it's just one example out of many.

People and FSF asked them to open source the code of Windows 7 since they are not developing and selling it anymore. But that's Microsoft "love for Linux".

[rickyx]

I think this is the typical Embrace phase:
the goal of the linux subsystem is to not get people out of Windows.
People don't have to try native linux: how many people might find it sufficient for their needs?

Just like, for app developers, the priority is not to get people out of the app or make it difficult to change software (portability, etc.) and maintain control. This explains the work done to improve Hyper-V and graphics acceleration support on WSL2.

In fact now, to try Ubuntu and any software from e.g. Ubuntu, I don't have to shut down Windows and leave the Microsoft ecosystem. That's why a bootloader that supports Linux is useless and harmful: why to reboot if three clicks are enough?

Linux thus becomes one more piece of software to be used, under Windows.
You become "surrounded" by Windows: a warm, customer friendly, embrace.

[oiaohm]

DirectX for Linux already exists.

Not really. Direct X for Linux from Microsoft is only for "Windows Subsystem for Linux". Reality is WSL would pass though vulkan things would be a lot better.

Microsoft cooperates and helps the Samba project already.

That is because Microsoft lost a court case and legally has to.
https://www.networkworld.com/article...en-source.html
Yes if Microsoft does not up hold their requirements under the agreement Samba with IBM backing is more than willing to go back to court and force the issue. Does Microsoft do work on Samba project above what the agreement mandates no it does not.

They haven't provided NTFS but they released the patents for ExFAT.

Part of the new mainline ntfs driver is that Microsoft patents over NTFS have gone end of life. No the major patents of ExFat where issued in 2009. So 2019 was more Microsoft going none of the patents we have left on exfat are good enough to take to court and win. This was not releasing patents but more admitting when bluff was caleld they were holding nothing. Both ExFat and NTFS being updated and included mainline Linux is patents end of life not Microsoft been a nice party.

If Microsoft was being good on file system patents we would see Microsoft releasing the patents for Resilient File System (ReFS) but at this stage we are going to be waiting until 2032-2033 for those.

Edge on Linux is more something they had todo. Do remember Microsoft also released Internet Explorer for Unix when their browser market share was low. Edge on Linux could be just another rug pull like Internet Explorer for Unix was.

Oh and they contribute to Linux

This one should be why did it take so long. For over 2 decades now Microsoft update servers have been linux servers.
https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/se...oduct-overview
Thinking over 50% of azure sold to customers instances are Linux and the switches Azure depends on are debian based distribution yes noted in 2016 "Azure Cloud Switch" distribution existing.

So Microsoft very heavily depends on Linux server side. To the point that it basically no Linux no Microsoft.

On the desktop side Microsoft is still trying to hold out with the likes of the Direct X for Linux that only works when you have Windows installed. Microsoft is more slowly being dragged by customers into supporting Linux. Lot of what Microsoft does is not a willing party want to support Linux. You can partly tell this by the amount of resources valve put into getting zink to work vs microsoft attempting to make a opengl wrapper to dx12. Willing party like Valve puts in more resources and gets particular things done completely. Unwilling party like Microsoft developed the stuff far enough to tick the that they have done it. Microsoft with Linux is still that bratty kid saying "do I have to" then doing the bare min required. Maybe some point Microsoft will loss the bratty kid bit.

[jacob]

Not really. Direct X for Linux from Microsoft is only for "Windows Subsystem for Linux". Reality is WSL would pass though vulkan things would be a lot better.


That is because Microsoft lost a court case and legally has to.
https://www.networkworld.com/article...en-source.html
Yes if Microsoft does not up hold their requirements under the agreement Samba with IBM backing is more than willing to go back to court and force the issue. Does Microsoft do work on Samba project above what the agreement mandates no it does not.

IIRC Microsoft sent some bugfixes to Samba. I don't know whether they do some upstream development at the moment or not.

Part of the new mainline ntfs driver is that Microsoft patents over NTFS have gone end of life. No the major patents of ExFat where issued in 2009. So 2019 was more Microsoft going none of the patents we have left on exfat are good enough to take to court and win. This was not releasing patents but more admitting when bluff was caleld they were holding nothing. Both ExFat and NTFS being updated and included mainline Linux is patents end of life not Microsoft been a nice party.

Most software patents are all about bluff. This doesn't change the fact that they expressly said let there be a first class Linux driver for ExFAT and Samsung has our blessing to implement it. Don't forget that in many instances a vendor may not even be allowed to release its proprietary code under an open source licence. Sometimes because it includes proprietary 3rd party code with a restrictive licence of its own, sometimes because it illegitimately includes GPL'd code and they don't want for the world to find out.

However Microsoft did open source some of their formerly proprietary stuff (powershell, .NET core etc)

[...]

On the desktop side Microsoft is still trying to hold out with the likes of the Direct X for Linux that only works when you have Windows installed.

No one should expect Microsoft to become a new Fedora. Like everyone else they contribute to FOSS and especially Linux where it benefits them. For MS it's cloud infrastructure, for Google it's data centers and mobile, for Facebook it's data centers and web apps, for Oracle it's databases, for RedHat it's corporate servers and virtualisation hosts, etc. Ultimately they are all good and valuable contributions that expand the capabilities of FOSS.

[oiaohm]

IIRC Microsoft sent some bugfixes to Samba. I don't know whether they do some upstream development at the moment or not.

Odd bug fixes here or there. Most of this is from the requirement for Microsoft to attend the SMB protocol compatibility events that are under Samba charge. Samba project has also done the reverse where the Samba testsuite for the SMB protocol and active directory prove Microsoft has a bug.

Most software patents are all about bluff. This doesn't change the fact that they expressly said let there be a first class Linux driver for ExFAT and Samsung has our blessing to implement it.

File system patents have been proven into count with fat long names. Samsung could only merge the ExFat driver mainline after the patent issue had been resolved.

When it comes to file system patents Microsoft is one party that does not bluff and has the court cases to prove they enforce them.

However Microsoft did open source some of their formerly proprietary stuff (powershell, .NET core etc)

Lot of that list is more Microsoft attempting to save their position. Powershell port is very incomplete. .NET core is another area that is very incomplete. You see this repeated bratty kid thing. Where they do enough to tick box of customers request but not enough to properly complete the job.

No one should expect Microsoft to become a new Fedora. Like everyone else they contribute to FOSS and especially Linux where it benefits them. For MS it's cloud infrastructure, for Google it's data centers and mobile, for Facebook it's data centers and web apps, for Oracle it's databases, for RedHat it's corporate servers and virtualisation hosts, etc. Ultimately they are all good and valuable contributions that expand the capabilities of FOSS.

I did not say there was not a benefit. But the half done work of Microsoft cannot be overlooked with Microsoft history of EEE. Half done is something Microsoft has done to OSX and OS/2 before that.

[pal666]

So are you saying that anyone who is not a nonprofit charity should be banned from open source? RedHat like Microsoft invest in FOSS because it makes them money.

you are confusing redhat who only makes open source software with microsoft who makes closed source software and i guess subj is also closed source

[jacob]

you are confusing redhat who only makes open source software with microsoft who makes closed source software and i guess subj is also closed source

RedHat also makes closed source software.

[evasb]

I think people would prefer to rather ignore MS BS, but I think the MS shills (they even say that they don't use Linux -- what are they doing here?) can't handle the silence because they can't shill without an audience to reply to their crap.