AMD Ryzen 9 5900X + Ryzen 9 5950X Dominate On Linux

[ms178]

I'm sorry, but do you actually think this is news to anyone? Obviously that's what is going on. In a free market economy, companies prioritize higher profit products first. Always. Except perhaps if they are strategically trying to enter a market and willing to lose money to do so.

It just baffles me that you are upset by this basic fact of capitalism for some reason. I hate to break any more bad news to you, but are you aware that Santa isn't real?

You don't have to explain capitalism to me. You also don't need to explain the perspective of AMD to me. Explain to me why people like you are cheering for a price hike and welcome to get less value! Ever heard of the term homo oeconomicus? Your comments make it clear to me that you either don't know what that means nor what the perspective of a rational consumer should be, cheering for a price hike doesn't fit into that concept and makes such behavior irrational, ignorant and crazy.

[user1]

As I said earlier, I really don't get all the people defending the 50$ price bump. Please don't explain to me how free market works. If Intel was truly competitive with its latest products, I don't think AMD would've bumped the prices. It's clearly because AMD already feels Intel can't offer anything competitive. Some say it's because of the significant performance improvement / Increased R&D costs / redesign of the cpu core, but let's say the same will happen with Zen 4, will the prices bump again?
I just fail to see other reasons for the price bump other than Intel not being competitive. Wasn't Zen 2 also significantly different from Zen and Zen+?
As I already said, Intel has never bumped the prices by 50$ in a single generation. In fact, when the first Skylake cpu's were released, they were actually a bit cheaper than the previous Haswell cpu's.

[rabcor]

Great work AMD!
Bringing some more balance to the severely tilted ecosystem!

Where is this balance you speak of? Their prices are always a 100$ higher compared to intel's now; and what's their first course of action? Increasing the average price of their CPUs by 100$ (which is 100$ beyond Intel's prices as well...)

Right now, I'm feeling AMD is more like Intel 2.0, the situation is not better, it is worse.

[pmorph]

As I said earlier, I really don't get all the people defending the 50$ price bump. Please don't explain to me how free market works. If Intel was truly competitive with its latest products, I don't think AMD would've bumped the prices. It's clearly because AMD already feels Intel can't offer anything competitive.

I'm not sure what there is to defend, can you point me to the gold standard of pricing? If you find the pricing bad personally, you have all the right to be of that opinion.

[birdie]

I'm so glad some rational unbiased people have joined the discussion although our voices are drowned by rabid AMD fans who are rejoicing the insane price hike and continue to come up with inane "arguments" as to why it's good. Again, if Intel had deliberately removed certain low range CPUs from their new CPU lineup and introduced new CPUs at an ever higher price, they would have been torn apart. If it's AMD, it's perfectly OK. Everything AMD does is perfectly OK - let's see what will happen in the next few years if Intel doesn't manage to dig themselves out of the deep hole their have found themselves in.

Intel introduced faster and faster CPUs for well over a decade, remember the i7 860 at around $290 and the i7 6700K at around $330.

A whopping $40 price hike (the inflation for the time period was probably higher) over the period of almost ten years despite offering an average ~100% performance increase in the mean time, spending tens of billions of dollars revamping old and building new factories and researching new nodes, developing several generations of iGPUs, introducing AVX and AVX2 instruction sets. AMD? Outsourcing everything to TSMC and having next to zero dollars spent on CAPEX (in comparison to Intel).

Zen 3 wasn't developed from scratch - by AMD's own admission they significantly revamped Zen 2 but it's mostly the same core. Now compare the i7 860 to the i7 6700K and tell me how similar they are. Both Sandy Bridge and Sky Lake were major new uArchs unlike Zen 3. Not sure about Haswell but as my memory of it is not very good.

By AMD fans logic Intel should have sold the i7 6700K at the very least $500 higher because ... PERFORMANCE! LEADERSHIP! POWER CONSUMPTION! NEW iGPU! AVX and AVX2! NEW uArch! NEW NODE! I mean everything from AMD in the same period sucked ass.

God, this is fucking crazy and disgusting.

[ms178]

I would add that with the new x86-64 feature levels, Zen 3 wouldn't even qualify for the highest feature level as it (still!) lacks AVX-512 support. If a distribution wanted to target the highest feature level, Zen 3 buyers would be left behind. That tells us that Zen 3 is just an evolutionary step, wait for Zen 4 to get the capabilities for that next feature level. This probably won't matter that much in the short term, but Phenom II and oder AMD CPU's which lacked some important instruction sets at launch showed us that these were worse off later on once these instruction sets became important which eventually AVX-512 will get, too.

[drakonas777]

I would add that with the new x86-64 feature levels, Zen 3 wouldn't even qualify for the highest feature level as it (still!) lacks AVX-512 support. If a distribution wanted to target the highest feature level, Zen 3 buyers would be left behind. That tells us that Zen 3 is just an evolutionary step, wait for Zen 4 to get the capabilities for that next feature level. This probably won't matter that much in the short term, but Phenom II and oder AMD CPU's which lacked some important instruction sets at launch showed us that these were worse off later on once these instruction sets became important which eventually AVX-512 will get, too.

AVX-512 has nothing to do with ZEN3 pricing and launch lineup. Also, literally no Intel mainstream desktop product to date supports AVX-512. I don't understand why you (and birdie) come up with these kinds of absolutely irrelevant bullshit statements which prove nothing within logical framework of ZEN3 pricing discussion. On the other hand - I suspect why. Basically you are aware of AVX-512 criticism from Linus and some FOSS community, so you are trying to troll on this offtopic. Pathetic attempt.

Maybe instead trolling you two clowns should learn a bit more about CPU design to avoid all these cringe worthy takes, because you obviously do not understand a difference between ISA and uArch. uArch can be improved massively without any changes in ISA it implements. Anyway. I will join other members of phoronix forum and just ignore your bullshit.

[ms178]

AVX-512 has nothing to do with ZEN3 pricing and launch lineup. Also, literally no Intel mainstream desktop product to date supports AVX-512. I don't understand why you (and birdie) come up with these kinds of absolutely irrelevant bullshit statements which prove nothing within logical framework of ZEN3 pricing discussion. On the other hand - I suspect why. Basically you are aware of AVX-512 criticism from Linus and some FOSS community, so you are trying to troll on this offtopic. Pathetic attempt.

Maybe instead trolling you two clowns should learn a bit more about CPU design to avoid all these cringe worthy takes, because you obviously do not understand a difference between ISA and uArch. uArch can be improved massively without any changes in ISA it implements. Anyway. I will join other members of phoronix forum and just ignore your bullshit.

I think you don't know how to comprehend what I say. And of course it is a factor to take into consideration for buying a CPU (which might not be important for you personally, but for people who buy a system that should last 6 - 10 years). All I said is that missing AVX-512 support could hurt Zen 3's long term value. And I don't need to repeat that even the present value of the 5600X is atrocious, just watch the newest Hardware Unboxed review on the 5600X where Steve is more vocal about that fact if you don't believe my calculations. It seems to me that you and your friends in thought are the ones spreading bullshit around in ignoring facts and cheering for a company which is on the brink to match Intel's anti-consumer behavior. Denying that the supported CPU instruction set would be a factor in determining the value of a product is just bullshit out of your mouth. Of course it has an impact on the long term value of that product, like I showed you with the Phenom II example, while at first that won't have any negative impact this might change over time (I don't say it will, I don't have a chrystal ball to predict the future - but I watch the industry since the mid-90's so it would surprise me if that would be any different with AVX-512!). If you need another example to comprehend my point, just look how the Kepler architecture aged in comparison to its GCN counterparts and what that means for the long term value of said GPUs. Kepler was designed around the needs of the present and did well at first, while GCN had some untapped reserves in it which were later exposed with newer APIs and better drivers. Which one is the better GPU in modern titles: GCN. The same will be the case when AVX-512 CPU support is more widespread and the x86-64 v4 feature set will be a baseline for distributions to target to tap into that potential.

This might not be a big point for people who upgrade their CPUs every three years, but at least I still know of people who are staying on their hardware for far longer until it breaks.

[bridgman]

Zen 3 wasn't developed from scratch - by AMD's own admission they significantly revamped Zen 2 but it's mostly the same core. Now compare the i7 860 to the i7 6700K and tell me how similar they are. Both Sandy Bridge and Sky Lake were major new uArchs unlike Zen 3. Not sure about Haswell but as my memory of it is not very good.

That's actually the opposite of what we said. Any chance you could replace the underlined text with a link to an actual source ?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AMD_Stock/c...ompletely_new/

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16214...5700x-tested/2

Perhaps you were thinking of Zen2 rather than Zen3 ?

[pal666]

A $316 E6600 outperformed a $1000 AMD FX-62 ...

imbecile, $800 5950x outperforms $950 80486

Intel gave us, the consumers

some abuse, bit you seem to enjoy it