Ubuntu To Abandon Upstart, Switch To Systemd

[Guest]

Sorry to so many Linux distros jumping the shark and selling their souls. At least Gentoo and Slackware have not gone bat shit insane and are not making their init systems garbage.

Good joke. They're already using the most crappiest garbage available. Wonderfull decision Canonical. I hope the same will happen with Mir (at least on desktops).

[Scimmia]

I didn't get that either. They decide to adopt systemd, but are still ensuring that logind will work without systemd. Why?

Probably as a near term solution. I doubt we'll see Ubuntu running systemd until atleast 15.04 or later, the logind replacement will be their answer until then.

[GreatEmerald]

That being said, I have set up several headless minecraft and music playback servers, and still haven't directly interacted with the init system yet. And thoughtful never will, lol.

Well, how do you ensure that your servers auto(re)start? If you're using a shell script, then you're in essence interacting with sysvinit (and systemd allows handling it much easier, no need to write any scripts, just an INI-style unit file).

[profoundWHALE]

Mark Shuttleworth:
We?ll certainly complete work to make the new logind work without systemd as pid 1.

Wait, what?

I didn't get that either. They decide to adopt systemd, but are still ensuring that logind will work without systemd. Why?

Probably as a near term solution. I doubt we'll see Ubuntu running systemd until at least 15.04 or later, the logind replacement will be their answer until then.

This. They need to keep supporting their existing versions out there running it, and a transition like that would break too many things to fix (aside from what is on their to-do list already) that soon.

[aigarius]

Mark Shuttleworth:

I didn't get that either. They decide to adopt systemd, but are still ensuring that logind will work without systemd. Why?

Maybe, because they believe in component separation and independence, unlike systemd developers? There is no technical reason for logind to require that systemd is running and managing the system, implementing that will allow to run logind (and Gnome features that depend on it) with whatever init system people would want, which is a definate plus.

There are sure to be many more tightly coupled places in the systemd "infrastructure" that will need to be refactored for more flexibility now.

[Ansla]

Or maybe they will complete the rewrite so they can get rid of systemd in the future?

Systemd is "technically superior" in the sense that it's the easy way of supporting Gnome 3. So all the distros that were caught pants down by the Gnome dependency on logind and logind dependency on systemd had to choose between quickly implementing a logind replacement that doesn't depend on systemd or using systemd. They choose the easy and risk free way of using systemd.

In a similar manner millions of PC users choose Windows over Linux every day for its "technical superiority" of running all the software they are used too, and even if Linux does run that software Windows will run it at least as fast, usually faster. Much better OS from a "technical" perspective, right?

BTW, those of you that still think systemd was chosen over OpenRC for technical merits read the Debian page on it: https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/openrc The only true disadvantage it had to systemd was lack of socket activation. Except for that OpenRC does all the shiny new stuff that systemd brags about and is still portable to non-linux platforms, that is essential for both Gentoo and Debian. So why did Debian choose systemd over OpenRC? POLITICS!!!!

[sireangelus]

so either you don't want to run gnome and this dependence is irrelevant, or you want to run gnome an then being against systemd is pretty stupid

I think it's absurd that to run a DE you have to change your sysvinit, it's an artificial dependency and I don't like the idea not one bit, makes the whole " Linux is modular independent and promotes choice" argument void. As he said, this is the true reason systemd HAD to be chosen:

Or maybe they will complete the rewrite so they can get rid of systemd in the future?

Systemd is "technically superior" in the sense that it's the easy way of supporting Gnome 3. So all the distros that were caught pants down by the Gnome dependency on logind and logind dependency on systemd had to choose between quickly implementing a logind replacement that doesn't depend on systemd or using systemd. They choose the easy and risk free way of using systemd.

In a similar manner millions of PC users choose Windows over Linux every day for its "technical superiority" of running all the software they are used too, and even if Linux does run that software Windows will run it at least as fast, usually faster. Much better OS from a "technical" perspective, right?

BTW, those of you that still think systemd was chosen over OpenRC for technical merits read the Debian page on it: https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/openrc The only true disadvantage it had to systemd was lack of socket activation. Except for that OpenRC does all the shiny new stuff that systemd brags about and is still portable to non-linux platforms, that is essential for both Gentoo and Debian. So why did Debian choose systemd over OpenRC? POLITICS!!!!

[GreatEmerald]

I now have Allbery's statement, its discussion (including Jackson's conspiracy theory and Allbery's reaction to it) and his overview of upgrade plans in case 2 of my Debian discussion adaptation in Ace Attorney style:

http://aceattorney.sparklin.org/jeu.php?id_proces=57899

This should also shed light on why systemd was chosen to the two people above my post.

[Chaz]

Or maybe they will complete the rewrite so they can get rid of systemd in the future?

Systemd is "technically superior" in the sense that it's the easy way of supporting Gnome 3. So all the distros that were caught pants down by the Gnome dependency on logind and logind dependency on systemd had to choose between quickly implementing a logind replacement that doesn't depend on systemd or using systemd. They choose the easy and risk free way of using systemd.

In a similar manner millions of PC users choose Windows over Linux every day for its "technical superiority" of running all the software they are used too, and even if Linux does run that software Windows will run it at least as fast, usually faster. Much better OS from a "technical" perspective, right?

BTW, those of you that still think systemd was chosen over OpenRC for technical merits read the Debian page on it: https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/openrc The only true disadvantage it had to systemd was lack of socket activation. Except for that OpenRC does all the shiny new stuff that systemd brags about and is still portable to non-linux platforms, that is essential for both Gentoo and Debian. So why did Debian choose systemd over OpenRC? POLITICS!!!!

Because OpenRC doesn't have good documentation.

[Krejzi]

/facepalm

Are you for real? Or let me put it this way: you ever tried that in practice?

Yes

http://i.imgur.com/N1xFpYs.png