Latest Round Of Debian Systemd vs. Upstart Voting Ends

[justmy2cents]

As interested has said, this the beginning of a war against the future of Linux: systemd, kdbus, cgroups and wayland.

or you could simply call it as it is. Canonical Ltd. VS. FOSS!!!!!

i personally still feel ashamed since i used to suggest ubuntu in the past to n00b users. in that end i actually helped dividing linux instead of promoting it as it has shown. now, if anyone asks me... anything but ubuntu, which is a shame since some distros are awesome and the only thing they suffer is bad heritage.

[Alejandro Nova]

It has begun. Now there is an attempt to sack Steve Langasek from the Debian Technical Commitee.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/02/msg00205.HTML

Classy, specially since there is no formal procedure to manage conflicts of interest in Debian, and the conflict is evident (it's just like having Lennart Poettering vote in this decision). Ian Jackson is resorting to the classic "this is an already decided matter" defense.

The reality is: there is no formal procedure to manage conflicts of interests, and Debian must make one, regardless of what happens with Upstart, systemd, or this voting.

Now I'm going to the kitchen... I'm running short of popcorn...

[Skrapion]

But ubuttnu is a recent (and alarming) trend of 'OMG me yoozes teh compootah @ homz wiv thees, so mi MUHST bee guud @ duuing surver admin!' (basically: I know what I'm doing because I've used this software for all of 5 minutes and can cut+paste from a website instead of actually knowing what is happening) being offered by cheap VPS hosts.

Actually, Ubuntu Server Edition is surprisingly decent. It's shockingly conservative considering what they've been doing on the desktop side of things. Granted, it would be better with systemd, but Upstart is still an improvement over sysV.

[Skrapion]

https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte.../msg00205.html

Fixed that for you.

[nanonyme]

It has begun. Now there is an attempt to sack Steve Langasek from the Debian Technical Commitee.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/02/msg00205.HTML

Classy, specially since there is no formal procedure to manage conflicts of interest in Debian, and the conflict is evident (it's just like having Lennart Poettering vote in this decision). Ian Jackson is resorting to the classic "this is an already decided matter" defense.

The reality is: there is no formal procedure to manage conflicts of interests, and Debian must make one, regardless of what happens with Upstart, systemd, or this voting.

Now I'm going to the kitchen... I'm running short of popcorn...

https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte.../msg00225.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte.../msg00228.html Both saying Steve is allowed to vote and that he is not allowed to vote are considered OT for this init discussion. Steve will vote unless he *himself* decides not to.

[marciocr]

users neither choose nor care about init
distributions do
and most of distributions chose systemd over upstart
actually, upstart was chosen only by 2 distros, and only because upstart author worked for them and did the choosing - pretty pathetic performance, isn't it ?

RHEL 6 uses upstart.

And this "2 distros" are entirely family of Linux distros and have majority of Linux users. So no, isn't pathetic performance.

[Gusar]

RHEL 6 uses upstart.

I was using CentOS6 for quite some time until I noticed that the init system isn't sysvinit. Why? Because basically all services are started with init scripts. You're mostly dealing with /etc/init.d, /etc/sysconfig and chkconfig on RHEL/CentOS6, so saying "it uses upstart" is quite misleading. RHEL6 has the tiny beginnings of a migration to upstart and that's it. They never went further, because systemd appeared and they decided to go with that.

And this "2 distros" are entirely family of Linux distros and have majority of Linux users. So no, isn't pathetic performance.

It has already been said more than once that there's no backing for this "majority of users" assertion. Also, for an init system, I'd say developers, admins and distro maintainers are more important, because it's them who will be interacting with the init system the most. And among those, systemd has the greater mindshare. Case in point, the only non-Ubuntu-derivative distro even considering upstart is Debian. All others are either sticking to their own (Slackware and Gentoo, though the latter is making systemd more and more a first-class citizen) or moved to systemd.

[computerquip]

RHEL 6 uses upstart.

And this "2 distros" are entirely family of Linux distros and have majority of Linux users. So no, isn't pathetic performance.

RHEL 7 uses systemd. Although, I don't think the validity of a software should be determined based on its amount of use.

[erendorn]

RHEL 7 uses systemd. Although, I don't think the validity of a software should be determined based on its amount of use.

Well, having different maintainers choosing the same software is definitely a nice point, even though I absolutely agree that it's not enough in itself.

[Alejandro Nova]

https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte.../msg00225.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte.../msg00228.html Both saying Steve is allowed to vote and that he is not allowed to vote are considered OT for this init discussion. Steve will vote unless he *himself* decides not to.

If that's the best procedure to deal with conflicts of interests Debian can come up with, then their decision-making procedures are deeply flawed, but yes, it's OT to include those complaints in that bug report. Procedurally, they should have been sended as an entirely different request, so the mistake is procedural, it's not something substantial.

Now, I've seen some tactics like those in votings everywhere, so, let's wait a bit and hand me more popcorn.