Alan Cox Calls Fedora 18 "The Worst Red Hat Distro"

[eliac]

OK, this one example was not correct, I admit that. What about the other things mentioned in this thread where logout on a single user machine makes sense?

Remember: logout by default is not shown if there's a single user and only the Gnome shell session is available.
That covers the remarks I have read about Gnome developers not considering other desktops, and the remaining use cases seem to just fall in the remote access / headless background process category.

Now I very much hope that the same person who set up NFS or Samba or VNC server, who configured X for remote access or really needed to move users from group to group for some further reason won't have much trouble setting once and for all a gsetting by ticking a checkbox in a GUI or adding a one-liner to a setup script.

Really, that's what this silly fuss is about: a default that makes sense for the less techincal user and that whoever needs differently can override in about 30 seconds. The computer version of "first world problems", I'd say

[squirrl]

upgrades

Meanwhile,

Back at the Hall of Slack. Their 'setup` still uses the old ncurses package to provide stable installations one after another.

Fedora is for testing. RedHat had no interest in the desktop.

[GreatEmerald]

I found this on the fscking Fedora homepage:


Good enough points to do a rewrite, huh? Guess the previous installer did suck...

Hmm, good points indeed. The multiple processes issue is also in YaST, and can get quite annoying (as is its inability to asynchronously download and install packages).

That raises another question, though - why did the UI have to change? Why not leave it as it was before, just on a new codebase?

[lsatenstein]

Fedora 18 with Cinnamon is just great.

Too bad Cinnamon is not available in the Ubuntu repository.

Too bad OpenSCAD does not have syntax highlighting.

Some guys are spoiled. Some guys always write perfect code. Some guys were born as perfect coders and programmers.

Fedora 18 applications are just fine. UEFI delayed Fedora development to where delivery was late. Is the installer a bad design. I definitely say no. The concept is very good. Do the updates according to your preferences, -- keyboard, language, and so forth.

Is it a beta implementation -- a first effort to make it work, I say yes. It needs some extra quality control.

My fault with Gnome is that has the design that is trying to please desktop users and tablet users. And it does neither very well. So, if the argument about Fedora 18 is negative, you must blame the DE. (Presentation design).

I use Gnome rarely with Fedora 18. Cinnamon is a fantastic DE for Fedora 18. Cinnamon replaced Nautalus, uses the Gnome GUI libraries and is superb. It makes Fedora 18 much better than Ubuntu. If Gnome continues with one more bad release, you can rest assured that it will not be number one for Fedora 20.

One nice undocumented feature of Fedora18, is the ability to log into the system in GUI mode as root. Moving files, deleting files, copying files, renaming files, in fact directory and file manipulation with a GUI interface is so much faster and safer than with command line.

Fedora18 recognizes that system maintainers are not dumbells, who have to be prevented from using a graphical user interface from a root logon.

Cinnamon and Fedora 18, a great combination.

[GreatEmerald]

One nice undocumented feature of Fedora18, is the ability to log into the system in GUI mode as root. Moving files, deleting files, copying files, renaming files, in fact directory and file manipulation with a GUI interface is so much faster and safer than with command line.

That's horrible. You are supposed to do this, or an equivalent thereof:

kdesu dolphin .

[uid313]

One nice undocumented feature of Fedora18, is the ability to log into the system in GUI mode as root. Moving files, deleting files, copying files, renaming files, in fact directory and file manipulation with a GUI interface is so much faster and safer than with command line.

Fedora18 recognizes that system maintainers are not dumbells, who have to be prevented from using a graphical user interface from a root logon.

That is really stupid!

You should not be able to login as root.

You should use sudo.

[lsatenstein]

Root in GUI is great

I guess you wonder why it is great. Ans. Because it reduces errors as long as user does not concurrently use the web. Root passwords are confidential.

imagine in command mode doing a rm *~ and the user sneezes or his hand shakes and it ends up with rm * ~

Its very hard to do big damage with GUI, and it is much easier to avoid mistakes.

Naturally, the regular user can be added to group root, which is not really blockable via pam.

In conclusion, you don't give a five year old the keys to the car and tell him to drive. By the same token, you control who has root access in GUI mode.

Sudo is another open door. Every distribution I have used allows sudo su

[AdamW]

Leslie, please don't recommend people log in graphically as root. It is highly insecure and not to be advised in any case for any reason. Fedora is not designed to encourage this.

[AdamW]

Hmm, good points indeed. The multiple processes issue is also in YaST, and can get quite annoying (as is its inability to asynchronously download and install packages).

That raises another question, though - why did the UI have to change? Why not leave it as it was before, just on a new codebase?

So a couple of reasons...

1. the oldUI code was not cleanly separated from the backend, they were pretty much tied together.
2. the old UI kinda sucked. I mean, it wasn't good. Re-doing it has been on the table for a while. Just because the new UI has some teething problems doesn't mean the old one exactly cured cancer - tell me http://media.if-not-true-then-false....ation-type.png is a great screen, for instance (lots of people got *used* to it, but take a step back and tell me it's an awesome screen). Or the screen you got when you clicked on 'Change device' on http://media.if-not-true-then-false....oot-loader.png (sadly not pictured in that walkthrough), that was awesome. Or my favourite giant ball of win, and pretty much where Mo started seriously looking at the installer design: https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/...enshot_f14.png .

If you read through the archives of Mo's blog at http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/category/fedora/anaconda/ , which I really highly recommend doing, you can see where a lot of the newUI design came from, and a lot of the problems Mo identified in the old design. It's not just redesign for redesign's sake. The post on creating a RAID /home is particularly interesting when it comes to the new partitioning approach - http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2011/12/14...g-ui-thus-far/ .

[Rallos Zek]

That is really stupid!

You should not be able to login as root.

You should use sudo.

Its only stupid if you think everyone is an idiot. Thankfully there are distros that don't treat their users as idiots.

That's horrible. You are supposed to do this, or an equivalent thereof:

kdesu dolphin .

Again logging in as root is not stupid or horrible.