Fedora Workstation 41 To No Longer Install GNOME X.Org Session By Default

[robojerk]

If your life relies on legacy apps, you shouldn't be choosing Fedora in the first place. In case you are, you ought to switch to Rocky Linux 9 with a desktop environment, which shares a pretty similar ecosystem with Fedora, but instead of following the trend everything is rock stable.

I reject your unfounded assertion that server and VR development is "legacy" outright, you may be happy paying amazon $100 a month for the compute power of a rasberry pi, but I have no intention of jumping on your bandwagon thanks.

I would say Fedora is a technology forward distro that emphasis on software Red Hat may want to add to RHEL and to mature it. I think his comment was agreeing with you that maybe Debian or some other distro that emphasizes stability on already mature software is what you want.

[mSparks]

I would say Fedora is a technology forward distro that emphasis on software Red Hat may want to add to RHEL and to mature it. I think his comment was agreeing with you that maybe Debian or some other distro that emphasizes stability on already mature software is what you want.

the comment is flawed by the assertion that it assumes this is a "technology forward" move.
its not, its a move to be more android circa 2011, very very backwards.

if this plan will "force" turning fedora into a linux distro not dissimilar in functionality to android in 2011, Im pretty sure Im not the only fedora user who will be leaving tbh.

edit:fix dates.

[robojerk]

the comment is flawed by the assertion that it assumes this is a "technology forward" move.
its not, its a move to be more android circa 2006, very very backwards.

if this plan will "force" turning fedora into a linux distro not dissimilar in functionality to android in 2006, Im pretty sure Im not the only fedora user who will be leaving tbh.

Well, look. They're saying the Wayland session will be the only one installed by default. You'll probably be fine, you might just have to install some other packages and edit a file or two but then you'll be fine.. Fedora 44 might be a different story but hopefully any technical issues you have with Wayland then will be resolved in Gnome by then.

[cend]

the comment is flawed by the assertion that it assumes this is a "technology forward" move.
its not, its a move to be more android circa 2011, very very backwards.

if this plan will "force" turning fedora into a linux distro not dissimilar in functionality to android in 2011, Im pretty sure Im not the only fedora user who will be leaving tbh.

edit:fix dates.

Then why you aren't leaving, but will be leaving?

[anda_skoa]

given all of the software i use either doesnt work at all or performs terribly under wayland/xwayland, does this mean upgrading to this fedora version will bork my system?

How does Fedora usually handle upgrades?

On all Debian based systems I've used so far an upgrade will simply install the newest packages for each already installed package , regardless of which packages would be part of a new installation.

Only packages which are no longer in the repository would have been uninstalled or replaced.

I haven't used Fedora myself, but sinve tt is very common to install more software than what the initial installer had brought in, I find it unlikely that its upgrade process would revert back to the package selection the new installer would bring in.

[mSparks]

How does Fedora usually handle upgrades?

roughly, I could have the versions out

previously, up to about FC30 very badly. I went to centos 7 then 8 for a while.
last machine went FC34 to FC37 OK
this one has done FC37 to FC39 flawlessly, if a little nerve wracking, I dont have the time nor desire these days to lose a couple of days doing a fresh install and setting everything up from scratch.

On all Debian based systems I've used so far an upgrade will simply install the newest packages for each already installed package , regardless of which packages would be part of a new installation.

I have a debian machine and vm, run OL8 UEK on the data center machines, both seem great.

I find it unlikely that its upgrade process would revert back to the package selection the new installer would bring in.

xorg-server on fedora is already fairly out of date compared to that hosted on x.org they have just been adding security patches for a couple of years.

while I agree it wont drop pack to an install package selection, packages do get uninstalled during upgrades, last time round was the switch to pipewire which completely broke my audio setup for about 2 years (and is still lacking compared to pulseaudio), that i could live with, but no display is simply a deal breaker.

[dpeterc]

Companies pay those developers. Also they pay for hardware and infrastructure. Also adds efforts to management , HR, etc. That's a burden. Unless those developers are all volunteers that do it on their private lifes but I believe Xorg is mostly sustained by Red Hat.

Also companies usually are reticent to distribute unmaintained software because that expose them to risks with their customers. Any issue could impact customer trust, company image, or even legal risk. If the potential gain is marginal there may no be appetite for it.

I doubt any company is paying managers and HR to keep unmaintainted software on some server. And yearly cost of a server like X.org is less than one month salary of one developer.

It is simple boolean logic.
Either it is unmaintained and that costs next to nothing.
Or it is maintained, because people and companies still need it.

Looking at the announcements of updates of various x.org components, I can not see a lot of RedHat involvement. More than 50 % is done by Alan Coopersmith or Oracle.

https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-announce/2024-March/thread.html

https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-announce/2024-February/thread.html

https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-announce/2024-January/thread.html

I hope Redhat is not spending billions on secretaries to maintain that.

https://www.redhat.com/en/about/press-releases/ibm-closes-landmark-acquisition-red-hat-34-billion-defines-open-hybrid-cloud-future

[mSparks]

I doubt any company is paying managers and HR to keep unmaintainted software on some server. And yearly cost of a server like X.org is less than one month salary of one developer.

It is simple boolean logic.
Either it is unmaintained and that costs next to nothing.
Or it is maintained, because people and companies still need it.

Looking at the announcements of updates of various x.org components, I can not see a lot of RedHat involvement. More than 50 % is done by Alan Coopersmith or Oracle.

https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-announce/2024-March/thread.html

https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-announce/2024-February/thread.html

https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-announce/2024-January/thread.html

I hope Redhat is not spending billions on secretaries to maintain that.
https://www.redhat.com/en/about/pres...d-cloud-future

xorg-server recently took 100% market share of the machines on this list.

https://www.top500.org/

hardly "some server" or not unmaintained, X11 works and there is too much vested interest in keeping it working to let the morons still employed by redhat break it for the sake of their PIP.

if fixing stuff that aint broke is the best they can do, maybe they could put some time into something that hasnt been touched for a long time, like ls or cat.

maybe they could kick off a project to replace "legacy" ls with something akin to microsofts explorer.exe, Im sure that would keep them on payroll a lot longer than wayland will.

[cend]

xorg-server recently took 100% market share of the machines on this list.

https://www.top500.org/

hardly "some server" or not unmaintained, it works and there is too much vested interest in keeping it working to let the morons still working for redhat break it for the sake of their PIP.

if fixing stuff that aint broke is the best they can do, maybe they could put some time into something that hasnt been touched for a long time, like ls or cat.

I think bash has more market share than Xorg? Graphical session isn't a useful application for supercomputers.

[mSparks]

I think bash has more market share than Xorg? Graphical session isn't a useful application for supercomputers.

meanwhile, in the real world

https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=dEqCjlL8yOahwhvb&v=pCzCJzwrB_c

maybe when wayland applications can remember what a screen is they will be able to do more than compete with android apps from 2011 - but I dont hold up much hope for that ever being the case, 15 years in and understanding how to handle [l,r,t,b] is still to complex for those working on wayland, forcing people like me to adopt it or distro hop isnt going to change that.