Fedora 40 Eyes Dropping GNOME X11 Session Support

[oiaohm]

crises would imply immediacy. RHEL8 is fully supported until 2029, its only 2023.

Except X11 bare metal on RHEL8 is not ensured unto 2029. xwayland is until 2029 with RHEL8. The RHEL8 being default Wayland has some very important meanings this means the x.org bare metal packages are technically optional extras so not under any insurance to remain functional. Does this now explain why RHEL stepped down from x11 maintainer role.

Its RHEL 7 that there is a contract requirement to maintain x11 bare metal with security updates/stability updates that ends June 30, 2024.

Of course this is not a problem if everything you need works with wayland by June 30 2024.

Yes RHEL meaning of fully supported does not cover packages that are optional extras little bit of a trap in their contract this has lead to a few to believe redhat has to support X11 bare metal lot longer than they are contract required to.

[mSparks]

Except X11 bare metal on RHEL8 is not ensured unto 2029. xwayland is until 2029 with RHEL8.

From Redhat maybe.
https://www.oracle.com/a/ocom/docs/e...ime-069338.pdf

Couple that with an industry wide resistance to adopting RH9 and beyond because of everything you already said, and just maybe that's why Oracle sucked up all RHs clients and made RH so mad about the "freeloaders" that they started a classic campaign of shooting themselves in the foot to spite their face.

[oiaohm]

From Redhat maybe.
https://www.oracle.com/a/ocom/docs/e...ime-069338.pdf

Couple that with an industry wide resistance to adopting RH9 and beyond because of everything you already said, and just maybe that's why Oracle sucked up all RHs clients and made RH so mad about the "freeloaders" that they started a classic campaign of shooting themselves in the foot to spite their face.

https://docs.oracle.com/en/operating-systems/oracle-linux/8/relnotes8.0/ol8-NewFeaturesandChanges.html#ol8-features-database

Oracle 8 also end of life X11 the same way Redhat did. Going to Oracle or Suse does not avoid the fact all of them are aiming to end of life X11 baremetal.

Yes X11 support on Oracle is also Oracle 7 that end of life for everything being supported Dec 2024. You got yourself 6 months that is it. Extended support is not all packages.

mSparks its about time you wake up Oracle and Suse have no interest in keeping X11 bare metal alive. Also you need to stop presuming some how Oracle and Suse are different in this regard.

[mSparks]

https://docs.oracle.com/en/operating-systems/oracle-linux/8/relnotes8.0/ol8-NewFeaturesandChanges.html#ol8-features-database

Oracle 8 also end of life X11 the same way Redhat did. Going to Oracle or Suse does not avoid the fact all of them are aiming to end of life X11 baremetal.

Yes X11 support on Oracle is also Oracle 7 that end of life for everything being supported Dec 2024. You got yourself 6 months that is it. Extended support is not all packages.

mSparks its about time you wake up Oracle and Suse have no interest in keeping X11 bare metal alive. Also you need to stop presuming some how Oracle and Suse are different in this regard.

Nope, read it again.
wayland was made default in RH8 (and everyone changes the defaults, no different than changing default passwords)
xorg-server wasn't depreciated (by redhat) until RH9 (which no one is adopting, either from RH or any of the alternatives, including OL9)
X11 is theoretically still fully supported via xwayland in RH9 and beyond (but no one believes it, no matter how often you lie to yourself, not least I suspect because redhats CTO is more concerned about offending snowflakes by describing a master-slave architecture than fixing actual problems)

By the time OL8 is end of life, the standard EL will be openELA and the industry will adopt whatever distribution based on that best meets their needs.

[oiaohm]

By the time OL8 is end of life, the standard EL will be openELA and the industry will adopt whatever distribution based on that best meets their needs.

Where is the documentation that says openELA will support anything other than Wayland with xwayland. The reality it does not. Same problem applies no one is paying for x.org bare metal to be maintained.

[mSparks]

Where is the documentation that says openELA will support anything other than Wayland with xwayland. The reality it does not. Same problem applies no one is paying for x.org bare metal to be maintained.

openELA is an industry trade association, it will support whatever the industry and users want, which is clearly not the steaming POS that is wayland right now. as will be demonstrated imho by FC40 adoption (unless RedHat really ups their game within the next 12 months getting user feedback on something virtually no one - not people in RH, not 3rd parties who can do nothing with total lack of useful tooling - is using).

[oiaohm]

openELA is an industry trade association, it will support whatever the industry and users want,

Of course industry will out want out of date software that will see themselves locked out of government contracts.

That is not how trade association work either that they will fight for what users want. Think of all the trade associations fighting against right to repair.

Industry trade association only support their members no body else get use to it. oracle Suse and CIQ(behind rocky linux) all 3 have plans for Wayland default.

Sorry the ones founding OpenELA believe in Wayland like it or not mSparks.

[mSparks]

Of course industry will out want out of date software that will see themselves locked out of government contracts.

That is not how trade association work either that they will fight for what users want. Think of all the trade associations fighting against right to repair.

Industry trade association only support their members no body else get use to it. oracle Suse and CIQ(behind rocky linux) all 3 have plans for Wayland default.

Sorry the ones founding OpenELA believe in Wayland like it or not mSparks.

Bread factories still run on sunos 2.x from 1985
Many bank backoffices still run on RH4 and 5
Lots of new ICEs use wayland

This is industry.

Its not a matter of "believing in wayland" or not. Its about when wayland will be ready to install on sunos 2.0 or RH4.... The Redhat execs think it is ready now.....

[oiaohm]

Its not a matter of "believing in wayland" or not. Its about when wayland will be ready to install on sunos 2.0 or RH4.... The Redhat execs think it is ready now.....

Really you cannot install update x.org bare metal server on RH4 or sunos 2.0.

https://www.phoronix.com/news/X.Org-No-Byte-Swapped-Clients

So no updated libx11 on Sunos 2.0 or RH4 to deal with this.

Yes clock is ticking as soon as someone does the next X11 server bare metal release be ready for hell to break lose. Yes stack of security fixes are going to cause a stack of legacy setups to break.

Redhat execs don't exactly believe Wayland is ready now. Redhat execs just believe Wayland going to be less broken. So are not going to keep on throwing good money after bad with X11 server.

Think about Xwayland carefully. Xwayland you can run more than 1 instance of it at the same time. So you need security issue problem of Byte Swapping for legacy applications you can run a xwayland instance for and still run a xwayland instance without that. Yes do this without needing the user to login and out.

Have you not noticed due to the way Nvidia does their drivers 3d and 2d GPU acceleration does not work with Xnest/Xephyr on bare metal and that even when this works on AMD and Intel you take a lot of overhead.

X11 protocol has a lot of problems. X11 bare metal has a lot of problem because of how X11 user space drivers are designed and the X11 composite extension design lot of these go back to legacy issues that predate X11 being used with Unix. Yes I know Unix is older being 1960s and X11 is 1987 but when X11 was first done at MIT the base OS it was on was not a Unix and it still shows though in DDX interface(yes the interface for X11 user space drivers).

[mSparks]

Really you cannot install update x.org bare metal server on RH4 or sunos 2.0.

They both support and run X11 clients already without xorg-server. why would you need to?