Ubuntu 23.10's Firefox Snap Enabling Wayland By Default

[WereCatf]

Ah, you're using a BIG THING snap from the vendor of BIG THING. Trying this with snaps of Apache2 and PHP, should they exist, would have exactly the same issue (and more) compared to keeping the debs up to date of course.

What you're doing is offloading keeping up to date with Apache and PHP and ssh and.. security updates to the vendor of BIG THING, and if you're happy with that, fine.

I don't understand. Why wouldn't I trust Nextcloud-devs to know best how to maintain Nextcloud and its dependencies? If not Nextcloud-devs themselves, then who?

[fkoehler]

I don't understand. Why wouldn't I trust Nextcloud-devs to know best how to maintain Nextcloud and its dependencies? If not Nextcloud-devs themselves, then who?

Doesn't matter whom you trust, there will always be people saying "what you are doing is insufficient and insecure...". And if you do everything yourself and trust nobody, and manage to react to every security notification with a full rebuild, thourough testing and complete validation run + deployment of the updated software within a time frame of 24 hours, that's clearly insufficient and not fast enough ;-)

[WereCatf]

Doesn't matter whom you trust, there will always be people saying "what you are doing is insufficient and insecure...". And if you do everything yourself and trust nobody, and manage to react to every security notification with a full rebuild, thourough testing and complete validation run + deployment of the updated software within a time frame of 24 hours, that's clearly insufficient and not fast enough ;-)

True enough, mate, true enough. Kind of sad, too, if one's life is dictated by such amounts of hubris and/or paranoia.

[You-]

Pop_OS is a perfect replacement for Ubuntu. I think it will replace ubuntu in the near future. (If cosmic is a big break)*

*I know that it is based on ubuntu. But its more or less a matter of time until they will rebase to debian with their selection of packages and cosmic+flatpak

I doubt they are up for the task of hundreds of employees in order to do a comparable job to what Ubuntu does when they can have half a dozen and just piggyback off the work done by Ubuntu.

It will only change if Ubuntu becomes hostile to such distros.

[phwoar]

I highly recommend a read of https://popey.com/blog/2023/09/outdated-snap-packages/

It's from someone who spent five years as part of the Canonical team encouraging developers to produce snap packages.

The second paragraph includes the sentence "Canonical needs to get a grip on the broken, uninstallable, insecure, and outdated snaps provided in the snap store" and the rest confirms that snaps on the desktop are not for me.

[Daktyl198]

Am I only one here around who is ignoring Ubuntu just because they force feed us with Snap by replacing some important packages?

I'll never get over the irony of people on this forum essentially boycotting Ubuntu for creating and using Snaps but worshiping and simping for Fedora for doing the exact same thing with Flatpaks, a format that is 1:1 on it's purpose for existing, and timeline that it has existed, as Snaps. It's Upstart vs systemd all over again, and once again Red Hat and IBM throw their weight around to "win" the NIH race.

Y'all are weird.

[Mez']

Snap sucks. Please boycott anything from Canonical and fork it if you feel it deserves to.

Canonical sucks.

The only thing sucking here is you.

[Mez']

I'll never get over the irony of people on this forum essentially boycotting Ubuntu for creating and using Snaps but worshiping and simping for Fedora for doing the exact same thing with Flatpaks, a format that is 1:1 on it's purpose for existing, and timeline that it has existed, as Snaps. It's Upstart vs systemd all over again, and once again Red Hat and IBM throw their weight around to "win" the NIH race.

Y'all are weird.

Haha, spot on.
But Red Hat has the marketing machine to influence them into believing in a false sense of community, so that 3rd party devs get the work actually done while Red Hat never really take responsibility for it themselves (it's always the fault of others when something they developed is broken). Basically everything Red Hat creates is poorly designed, but they are very good at brainwashing, and they don't assume what they do in the eyes of people (they will spread FUD on Canonical while doing the same as you mentioned), although their only goal is the bottom line, just as it is for Canonical. All they do is for themselves, not for a community they fakely try to persuade there is.

Canonical does assume clearly on the contrary. They've always been honest about it and assuming it.

[timofonic]

Haha, spot on.
But Red Hat has the marketing machine to influence them into believing in a false sense of community, so that 3rd party devs get the work actually done while Red Hat never really take responsibility for it themselves (it's always the fault of others when something they developed is broken). Basically everything Red Hat creates is poorly designed, but they are very good at brainwashing, and they don't assume what they do in the eyes of people (they will spread FUD on Canonical while doing the same as you mentioned), although their only goal is the bottom line, just as it is for Canonical. All they do is for themselves, not for a community they fakely try to persuade there is.

Canonical does assume clearly on the contrary. They've always been honest about it and assuming it.

Canonical and RedHat are both a cancer...

I don't suck microscopic things

[Alex Doe]

I'll never get over the irony of people on this forum essentially boycotting Ubuntu for creating and using Snaps but worshiping and simping for Fedora for doing the exact same thing with Flatpaks, a format that is 1:1 on it's purpose for existing, and timeline that it has existed, as Snaps. It's Upstart vs systemd all over again, and once again Red Hat and IBM throw their weight around to "win" the NIH race.

Y'all are weird.

First, I deleted all the Flatpak from my Fedora. And I still can install Chromium and Firefox from rpm repo. No pushing from RH here. Second, last time I checked Snaps were painfully slow while Flatpaks were just slow. That's kinda expected because Snaps are written in Go while Flatpaks is in C. So there is a big difference. It's not about us being weird, it's about you lying 🤷♂️