Facebook, Twitter Proposing CentOS Hyperscale SIG With Newer Packages + Other Changes

[coder]

Wtf is wrong here today?

Flag the post and move on. You can't reason with someone who says such outlandish things, and giving them more attention is exactly what they want.

[skeevy420]

Currently following CentOS news from the distance only, I must have misunderstood something. I thought CentOS is slightly downstream of RHEL, and getting replaced with CentOS Stream which will be upstream of RHEL. However following the link to the SIG page, it sounds like CentOS is upstream of CentOS Stream?

It used to be that RHEL and CentOS were basically the same thing, tracked the same sources and package versions, only they came from paid or free providers. After a while CentOS created Stream that tracked ahead slightly of RHEL, though not as much as Fedora. Both of those had a negative effect in that it broke the RH community in two -- free and paid users with contributors in two places.

CentOS has now dropped their original edition that tracked RHEL and only provides their Stream edition that acts as a stable testing ground for RHEL. That forces all the CentOS users, those freeloading bastards, on to the Stream edition since that's the only free one left...aside from a personal/developer edition you can get when you sign up for a free RHEL account.

IMHO, they should drop the CentOS name and call it RH Stream and market it as a free, rolling RH. That is what it is. Or Salmon Linux since we're going upstream.

[CommunityMember]

It used to be that RHEL and CentOS were basically the same thing, tracked the same sources and package versions, only they came from paid or free providers. After a while CentOS created Stream that tracked ahead slightly of RHEL, though not as much as Fedora.

It is somewhat more subtle. RHEL has a major version (8 is the current major version), with regular releases (8.1, 8.2, etc.) which dropped all together in a large thump which selectively updated packages after RH had performed their own fix back-porting/cherry picking (and importantly regression tested) in ways that often meant that the package was essentially the same through-out the major version (security or other critical updates could be back-ported and released at any time between regular releases). The users of RHEL (or CentOS) did not normally have access to the WIP fixes and packages that RH employees were working on as part of the next release (RHEL customers could get those fixes on request, CentOS users had not such access). CentOS 8 Stream was essentially access to those WIP fixes before they had been bundled up into the next release, so CentOS stream users got fixes as they were ready. For some CentOS users, that was goodness (fixes are good), but for others, that meant they might need to be far more careful about how they processed and evaluated updates, as there will no longer be a CentOS release rebuild (although one should be able to write an ansible script to update to the equivalent release package versions, but that would mean work that many CentOS users had not resourced, and did not wish to collaborate with other CentOS users to resource).

Software collections (and now modules) were intended to provide a way for RH to be able to provide access to newer package versions of major groups of tools, such as a more recent C++ compiler (so developers can use newer C++ features), or a more recent mariadb version, as RHEL (and CentOS) itself did not change the package versions (they just backported fixes as necessary). But those tended to be somewhat limited and targeted in scope (and their use does involve some hoop jumping some of the time).

There have been independent repositories that supported both RHEL and CentOS users for ages that included additional packages, and in some cases later versions of packages. EPEL, hosted as part of Fedora, is essentially packages that are useful to at least some people, but not in RHEL (sometimes RH will add packages that lots of customers request in the next release, but they tend to be a small list). There is a CentOS hosted repo that has later kernel versions for platform/feature enablement (while RHEL customers can request backporting of hardware support, or newer kernel features, and get it from RH directly (perhaps, RH does an internal eval on requests), for CentOS customers they would not see that capability until the next release drop at the earliest, so there was sometimes a need to be running the latest kernel). There are many other repos out there they extend/enhance the base.

This new SIG appears to be targeting packages that have not previously been commonly independently updated, such as systemd, where RHEL backports fixes, but no new features, and which is such a core functionality that updates are very useful, and for which the hyperscalers see no competitive advantage to doing alone (rather than many different teams doing the same/equivalent work, just share). In addition to newer package versions, I would not be surprised if they also look into LTO (and CIF) kernel builds as even a percentage of performance improvements in the kernel can mean many millions of dollars of savings for the hyperscalers.

[torsionbar28]

I'd rather not get involved in krystalnacht corporations. And judging by their stock price drops, others aren't fond of it either.

Precisely, what a spot-on analogy. These are not the sort organizations I want to hitch my wagon to. Whatever they're into, I'm staying away from. For those who believe in an internet of free and open communication, these are dark times for sure. This is actually a textbook argument for federated social media systems (e.g. Mastadon) that are free from centralized control.

[coder]

All the companies dropping Trump and right wing people and apps because the socially right thing to do.

That's a mis-characterization. Those companies' legal protections don't protect them from allowing their platforms to be used for illegal content. And incitement & conspiracy to commit violent or seditious acts are very much illegal.

So, to the extent they're legally obligated to do anything, they are obligated to remove that content.

This is not about banning groups and opinions they simply dislike or find socially corrosive, or there would have been a lot more bans going on for a lot longer.

The 1920s was the start of the era that generated the actual right wing Nazis; 100 years later in the 2020s it looks to be the start of an era that's actively generating actual left wing Nazis.

I love how MAGA folks storm the Capitol, in a literal coup-attempt, and it's somehow the fault of the left. This is the sort of insane reality-twisting that right-wing extremists use to turn everything into a grievance, which makes them feel justified in perpetrating such outlandish acts.

People like me see it like this:

And how many millions were slaughtered under the rainbow flag? Oh, none? Well, then maybe that's a bad analogy.

I'm not even trying to defend The Left, as there's stuff I don't like, either. But you need a sense of proportionality, here.

[pal666]

IMHO, they should drop the CentOS name and call it RH Stream and market it as a free, rolling RH. That is what it is.

well, "centos" is "free rh", "stream" is "rolling", so you already have what you are asking for

[pal666]

I'd rather not get involved in krystalnacht corporations

i like how imbeciles who are banned everywhere are same group which cryes at every step of linux progress

[pal666]

btw, wait a second, does it mean that there are no veteran unix admin employed by fb, twitter or verizon?

[pal666]

This is the sort of insane reality-twisting that right-wing extremists use

this is what russian terrorists do usually, i.e. by now you should expect it from russian puppets

[pal666]

For those who believe in an internet of free and open communication, these are dark times for sure

you are saying it like dark times for terrorists are bad thing