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CentOS 8 Ending Next Year To Focus Shift On CentOS Stream

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  • #91
    Originally posted by 9Strike View Post
    Oh wow like if anyone actually wanted a rolling CentOS. Luckily I'm on the Debian side of the distros, don't mind more people coming to the bright side
    On the bright side: this is the dawn of Linux unification wars.

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    • #92
      As is often the case, the worst part about this fiasco involves managing expectations. They can change the direction of CentOS all they want. But releasing CentOS 8 a year ago and setting the expectation that it would be supported for 10 years until a 2029 EOL is a colossal screw up. Many organizations have recently, are in the middle of, or were about to do migrations to CentOS 8. There are going to be a lot of pissed off people today. And Oracle is probably laughing themselves silly.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by duby229 View Post

        What? Rhel 8 is still available and you can still use it free of charge... -ALL- versions of Rhel have always been available for free of charge...
        this is a misleading statement. This is the licence condition of RHEL for free:

        "Finally, the biggest difference is that the no-cost Red Hat Developer Subscription is only for development purposes and may not be used in production."

        It's called a "Developer Subscription" because you have to sign up to get the free version, but since it not licenced for production, it is very different to Ubuntu LTS. Right now, I am very happy I made the decision to use Ubuntu for my server deployments. Although I subscribe to Landscape because IMO Canonical needs some compensation (it helps me earn a living) and I am ok with Canonical's broader support of Linux. It may not be perfect, but it is good enough for me to feel it's far from free-riding.

        Last edited by timrichardson; 08 December 2020, 09:49 PM.

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        • #94
          Witness extend and extinguish, just as was feared when CentOS was 'acquired' by Red Hat.

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          • #95
            No idea what the issue is. CentOS Stream updates are glacial, just like normal CentOS. The updates are of course tested. This is not Fedora or Windows, the latter of which had their entire testing team laid off. It's also not like an update will delete your /home directory (happened with Windows).

            edit: doesn't CentOS also support system restore type functionality with snapshots?

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            • #96
              Originally posted by Mangix View Post
              No idea what the issue is. CentOS Stream updates are glacial, just like normal CentOS. The updates are of course tested. This is not Fedora or Windows, the latter of which had their entire testing team laid off. It's also not like an update will delete your /home directory (happened with Windows).

              edit: doesn't CentOS also support system restore type functionality with snapshots?
              A lot of organizations use CentOS in production environments where they don't need official paid support. While there is nothing bleeding edge about CentOS Stream, for many of those organizations using something that is ahead of the next RHEL Beta is just a non-starter. End of story. Cynically, this looks like a big push to move a bunch of those users to paid RHEL support.

              It feels weird to say this, but the least invasive change for these organizations is likely to be a pivot to Oracle Linux.
              • It's built from the same RHEL sources and would be a drop in replacement.
              • It's free (and not some BS non-production developer license that some are proposing here).
              • They tend to patch vulnerabilities faster than CentOS (sometimes by multiple weeks).
              • If they decide they want a few of those systems to get paid support, it is simple to do so. With CentOS you'll be paving and redeploying that system on RHEL first.
              Ubuntu/Debian and Oracle are going to be picking up a lot of the churn this creates.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by timrichardson View Post

                this is a misleading statement. This is the licence condition of RHEL for free:

                "Finally, the biggest difference is that the no-cost Red Hat Developer Subscription is only for development purposes and may not be used in production."

                It's called a "Developer Subscription" because you have to sign up to get the free version, but since it not licenced for production, it is very different to Ubuntu LTS. Right now, I am very happy I made the decision to use Ubuntu for my server deployments. Although I subscribe to Landscape because IMO Canonical needs some compensation (it helps me earn a living) and I am ok with Canonical's broader support of Linux. It may not be perfect, but it is good enough for me to feel it's far from free-riding.
                Indeed, the full T&C, the red bolding is mine...

                https://developers.redhat.com/terms-and-conditions



                We are excited that you are interested in participating in the Red Hat Developer Program ("the Program"). The Program allows you to deploy, free of charge, certain Red Hat Subscriptions for development purposes subject to the terms below. The Red Hat Subscriptions offered to you in this Program are unsupported, intended for development purposes only, are not intended for other purposes such as production environments without an active Red Hat Subscription(s) and may not address known security vulnerabilities.
                The following terms apply to you and/or your company if you choose to participate in the Program.
                By participating in the Program and accepting these terms, you represent that you will be using the Red Hat Subscriptions(s) for development purposes only, and Red Hat is relying on your representation as a condition of our providing you access to the Subscription(s). If you use the Red Hat Subscriptions for any other purposes, you are in violation of Red Hat’s Enterprise Agreement set forth below and are required to pay the applicable subscription fees, in addition to any and all other remedies available to Red Hat under applicable law. Examples of such violations include, but are not limited to,
                • using the services provided under the Program for a production installation,
                • offering support services to third parties, or
                • complementing or supplementing third party support services with services received under the Program.
                Red Hat is providing you with access to one or more Red Hat Subscriptions for development purposes subject to the following conditions: (a) you agree that the terms in the Red Hat’s Enterprise Agreement set forth at http://www.redhat.com/licenses (the "Agreement") govern your usage of the Red Hat Subscriptions and (b) if you use the Red Hat Subscription for any purpose other than development purposes, you agree to pay Red Hat the Subscription Fee(s) for each Unit of Red Hat Subscription pursuant to the Agreement.
                PLEASE READ THE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY BEFORE USING THE RED HAT SUBSCRIPTIONS. BY USING RED HAT SUBSCRIPTIONS, YOU SIGNIFY YOUR ASSENT TO AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE AGREEMENT AND ACKNOWLEDGE YOU HAVE READ AND UNDERSTAND THE TERMS. AN INDIVIDUAL ACTING ON BEHALF OF AN ENTITY REPRESENTS THAT HE OR SHE HAS THE AUTHORITY TO ENTER INTO THE AGREEMENT ON BEHALF OF THAT ENTITY. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THE TERMS OF THE AGREEMENT, THEN YOU MUST NOT USE THE RED HAT SUBSCRIPTIONS.
                Thank you!









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                • #98
                  In the first half of 2021, we plan to introduce low- or no-cost programs for a variety of use cases, including options for open source projects and communities and expansion of the Red Hat Enterprise Linux Developer subscription use cases to better serve the needs of systems administrators. We’ll share more details as these initiatives coalesce.
                  This seems like the type of thing that should have been ironed out before the announcement.

                  When CentOS Linux 8 (the rebuild of RHEL8) ends, your best option will be to migrate to CentOS Stream 8
                  Actually and absurdly, as of now it seems Oracle Linux is the better RHEL ecosystem option. I will wait to see what program options Red Hat introduces.

                  "Oracle Linux can be downloaded, used, and distributed free of charge and updates and errata are freely available. Customers decide which of their systems require a support subscription. This makes Oracle Linux an ideal choice for development, testing, and production systems. The customer decides which support coverage is best for each individual system while keeping all systems up-to-date and secure."
                  Last edited by eidolon; 09 December 2020, 01:58 AM. Reason: Removed Gregory Kurtzer quote; didn't read #70 prior to posting.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Alex/AT View Post
                    Well, it was something we all got for free in exchange for a lot of field experience for everyone, creating an ecosystem around RHEL.
                    It cut a deep hole in the RHEL sales, but otoh it made its job popularizing the upstream and making it de facto industry standard.
                    Now this will begin to shift, not sure if the original intent to benefit from upped sales would be realized for long from that point on.
                    The point is, the less engineers acquainted with the ecosystem and ready to deploy it are out there, the less the demand for the distro itself.
                    Exactly this. But some sales idiots at RedHat can't see that this is more complex than "using CentOS = no RHEL sale". They just destroyed the biggest advantage they had against SLES and Ubuntu

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                    • Originally posted by JPFSanders View Post

                      That's not what is going to happen, by what can be read in the blog CentOS Stream X will just become kind of Debian Unstable of RHEL X, this is: if you're running CentOS Stream 8 now you will get the updates from the next RHEL point release (IE: 8.4) ahead of RHEL itself.

                      [...]
                      No, I think CentOS Stream is about RHEL9 and not beta-testing RHEL8.x. So basically instability/release/testing goes Fedora -> CentOS Stream -> RHEL.

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