Mark Shuttleworth Now Plans To Restore Ubuntu's Community Council

[starshipeleven]

Guys, feel free to bitch about Ubuntu but still, it's the distro that's made desktop LInux popular.

They just invested a lot of Shuttleworth's and investor's money into ads campaigns all over the place, with a questionable monetization scheme (i.e. no chance of that money ever coming back since Ubuntu is distributed gratis)


And as usual for most Ubuntu things it backfired, and a lot of people started looking at the other Linux desktop distros too.

they're still the desktop Linux that's real.

Because others like Debian, Fedora or OpenSUSE are not real?

[starshipeleven]

I don't think Android qualifies as desktop Linux.

Why does not Android qualify as "desktop linux"? GNOME has a similar touch-first interface but it's still technically desktop Linux.

Maybe in the past where it was limited to smartphones and tablets, but now it's also used in desktop/laptop devices as well, like for example in the subsystem for Chromebooks and Chrome-mini-PCs. There are many apps that are complex enough to cover a majority of users needs.

Thanks to projects like Brunch https://github.com/sebanc/brunch you can convert nearly any PC into running official ChromeOS images that have the Android subsystem and can use Android apps, so you can try out the functionality and convert old Intel PCs in GoogleSpywarePCs instead than installing a more conventional Linux distro.

And I've only seen one person use a Chromebook in my entire life and he bought it by mistake, because the salesman didn't tell him it was a Chromebook.

This is why Google in their infinite wisdom is pushing it hard in schools, so that younger generations learn how to use this instead of a Windows PC.

[behrangsa]

If the council proceeds to decouple snap from apt, or even better -- adopt flatpak, then that's very good news.

Otherwise, meh...

[Britoid]

Guys, feel free to bitch about Ubuntu but still, it's the distro that's made desktop LInux popular. They fucked up a few times (Mir, Unity,...) but they're still the desktop Linux that's real.

Desktop Linux isn't popular.

[Mez']

Because others like Debian, Fedora or OpenSUSE are not real?

Debian is not a distro that will attract unexperienced Linux switchers. It's less difficult to master than its image let us think though.

Fedora is developer-centric. It's a good point of entry for developer switchers but their logic (vanilla gnome, wayland, early adoption of semi-finished apps or projects) is against the diversity of user workflows, hence against what the average user will expect.
Vanilla Gnome is not very self-explanatory. Among other things, if you don't get somehow to know how to install extensions (to smoothen the experience) among other things, you're left with a workflow not targeted at average users. And it is disorienting. This isn't something you should look out for and find out by yourself. It should be obvious to the user.
Although a tour seems finally in the pipe, it should have been part of 3.0, not 3.38.
This is why I don't think Fedora puts Linux on the map, I'd bet that a majority of Fedora users (not here specifically and except developers) entered the Linux world via another distro. It still has a strong position in the Linux world, just not for switchers.

And for OpenSuse, I don't really know, it's clearly less popular than it used to be. I don't know if it comes from less focus on switchers and other distros superseding them on that front or something else.

[ColdDistance]

Fedora is developer-centric. It's a good point of entry for developer switchers but their logic (vanilla gnome, wayland, early adoption of semi-finished apps or projects) is against the diversity of user workflows, hence against what the average user will expect.
Vanilla Gnome is not very self-explanatory. Among other things, if you don't get somehow to know how to install extensions (to smoothen the experience) among other things, you're left with a workflow not targeted at average users. And it is disorienting. This isn't something you should look out for and find out by yourself. It should be obvious to the user.

Today Fedora is an easy system. With an AMD GPU, you can fully configure it for desktop and gaming with the graphical interface, without typing any command line.

And the "problem" with GNOME is the fact that people are used to use Windows-like desktop, but GNOME vanilla is very easy to use. Do you want something? Just go to Activities area, from there you can get almost everything. Since I got used to using GNOME vanilla I see all Windows-like desktops dirty and overloaded. Windows 10 and Android 10 aren't intuitive systems (two months later receiving Android 10, I feel that the horizontal sliding in web browser is not intuitive), but you have billions of user using them, so you have a lot of people who know how to use them.

Fedora gives you what Linux should have been the last 20 years, a simple and very automated system, but the most of people is used to use Windows and they don't know to use anything else, and in Linux area RPM receives a lot of hate from Deb fanboys. With an AMD GPU (or Intel, but Intel GPUs aren't ready for gaming yet) you don't have to know what is a driver, something that Windows and Ubuntu users can't say.

[starshipeleven]

Debian is not a distro that will attract unexperienced Linux switchers.

Fair, it does not have any real default so you need to do some choices when installing it, it's also mostly "as upstream", does not customize or bind together much.
It's the base of many distros for unexperienced Linux switchers, like obviously Ubuntu, but also EndlessOS and of course Linux Mint (that is a "friendlier Ubuntu").

Vanilla Gnome is not very self-explanatory. Among other things, if you don't get somehow to know how to install extensions (to smoothen the experience) among other things, you're left with a workflow not targeted at average users. And it is disorienting.

Yeah, because Ubuntu's interface is so much more intuitive and stuff, and does not resemble GNOME in any way, shape or form, especially now.

Really, this isn't 2012 anymore, people have been using touch-oriented interfaces for nearly a decade. Anyone that is curious enough to try Linux is familiar enough with a smartphone to figure out GNOME interface. Not to mention that now we have an explosion of video reviews and tutorials that will show basic functionality, and anyone that wants to "make the switch" will look at reviews before jumping in.

Although a tour seems finally in the pipe, it should have been part of 3.0, not 3.38.

That's fine and all, but imho it's overrated, especially nowadays as I said above.

This is why I don't think Fedora puts Linux on the map, I'd bet that a majority of Fedora users (not here specifically and except developers) entered the Linux world via another distro. It still has a strong position in the Linux world, just not for switchers.

Afaik it is the only other distro that has any relevance for switchers, it's less than Ubuntu, but it's a good second place imho, everyone else trails from a distance.

And for OpenSuse, I don't really know, it's clearly less popular than it used to be.

If we are talking of switchers yes, it couldn't compete with Ubuntu's liberal spending in PR, since SUSE didn't have access to infinite money reserves to liberally waste for a decade.

[eltomito]

Today Fedora is an easy system. With an AMD GPU, you can fully configure it for desktop and gaming with the graphical interface, without typing any command line.
And the "problem" with GNOME is the fact that people are used to use Windows-like desktop, but GNOME vanilla is very easy to use. [...]

Well unlike Ubuntu, Fedora doesn't offer you choice. All you get is GNOME Shell which not everybody likes. Personally, I find it cringeworthy, as if somebody tried to design the most horrible user interface imaginable while maintaining a surface pretense of user friendliness. But that's just me. You know, different people like different things. Therefore choice, not Fedora.

[lyamc]

Why does not Android qualify as "desktop linux"?

Because no one uses Android on their desktop except in VMs to develop non-desktop applications

[starshipeleven]

Because no one uses Android on their desktop except in VMs to develop non-desktop applications

Chromebooks as I said. They have Android layer now while the "chrome apps" have been retired.