Canonical Details Ubuntu 24.04 Desktop Plans + Ongoing X11 Sunsetting Discussions

[oiaohm]

That's Xwayland, not wayland.
And actually a Glamour bug rather than either.

Zink developer confirmed that Glamor does not have a bug. Glamor just happens to use opengl to specification that by specification has implicit sync. Nvidia opengl/egl implicit sync implementation is busted. The glamor issue is defect in Nvidia EGL/Opengl implementation nothing more.

Yex Xwayland running on Zink on Nvidia hardware glamor functions perfectly correctly. Yes include the Indirect GLX working.

Indirect GLX does not work with Xwayland because the Glamor rendering engine is not compatible with our EGL implementation.

The highlighted bit should be warning. EGL is not just used under Wayland. EGL is used under X11 as well. So something not compadible with some parties EGL implementation is most likely a little bigger than just a Wayland problem.

Yes the our EGL implemention is that the Nvidia EGL implementation is broken and it broken under X11 bare metal and it why glamor with xepher under X11 does not work resulting in Nvidia accelerated graphics not working under xepher and other old opengl application that work fine with AMD and Intel don't work with Nvidia because opengl implicit sync does not work. So that is driver bug effecting Xwayland and Xepher and many other applications some that run on Wayland some that run on X11.

Hardware overlays cannot be used by GLX applications with Xwayland.

This is the only real limitation in the Nvidia list that not some from of the Nvidia driver being broken.

This is also Xwayland, not wayland.

Exactly Nvidia has not listed a fault that says there is a issue with the Wayland protocol. Instead under closer inspection all bar that one it all cases of where they have coded stuff to be X11 only and never exposed interfaces or something else broken in their implementation.

You seem infatuated with Xwayland, but Xwayland only makes any sense if a real X11 WM isn't available, which is like never.

Except you miss Xwayland rootful. That means you run x11 WM inside Xwayland.

To use a X11 WM you don't need X11 baremetal server.

And you said it yourself already, if someone does ever write a wayland app you want to use just run it it in weston or cage.

Except there is a problem. X11 baremetal is not getting the work to support HDR monitors and the like. So a wayland HDR application is not going to work on weston/cage on bare metal xserver if developers don't expand X11 protocol for the xserver.

Like it or not the X11 protocol that xwayland supports is getting new X11 protocol extensions that xserver bare metal does not have. So its not just needing to use weston or cage to run wayland applications you can run in the case where you need to use cage/weston to run Xwayland so a X11 application works. You might have notice that this has happened in the last 12 months if you had read over the changes in xwayland. Then you can repeat this going back 4 years in fact with xwayland getting new X11 protocol extensions and xserver bare metal not getting them.

Xwayland and Xserver bare metal are not using the same version of the X11 Protocol. Yes 21 vs 23. That first number is kind of important.

[mSparks]

X11 baremetal is not getting the work to support HDR monitors

X11 already supports HDR monitors, it was added as an X11 extension some 6 or 7 years ago.
DeepColor: On-Screen HDR Drawables for X - X.Org https://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2017/goins_hdr.pdf

Its wayland that is struggling to get started with HDR, because there is no mechanism to add support for it and probably never will be, they are still struglling to get wayland on par with the state of X11 30 years ago, and the devs for it ain't that smart (see my earlier link on banning wayland forks)

[indepe]

Once Fedora 40 and KDE/Plasma 6 are out, things will already look very different. Now Ubuntu and before already RHL have made the direction they want to go very clear.

[indepe]

BTW, it took a while, but (I don't know exactly since when) NVidia now has a Wayland-native "NVidia Settings" app, that is very responsive and scrolls and resizes perfectly smooth.

[oiaohm]

X11 already supports HDR monitors, it was added as an X11 extension some 6 or 7 years ago.
DeepColor: On-Screen HDR Drawables for X - X.Org https://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2017/goins_hdr.pdf

Sorry mSparks that was never merged into xserver mainline. Yes that 2017 proposal went no where.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/HDR_monitor_support

The answer is no HDR support in X11 protocol.

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/issues/1037#note_521100

Yes this one gets better. Redhat developers said they will do HDR for Xwayland screw xserver. Yes the 2020 message there include the fact that DeepColor was never completed and never merged into the X11 protocol mSparks. The reality is at this stage DeepColor is more likely to merge into Xwayland than bare metal Xserver.

The reality is X11 xserver bare metal does not in fact support HDR. So here is you with another lie trying to make a point mSparks.

[mSparks]

Sorry mSparks that was never merged into xserver mainline. Yes that 2017 proposal went no where.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/HDR_monitor_support

The answer is no HDR support in X11 protocol.

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/issues/1037#note_521100

Yes this one gets better. Redhat developers said they will do HDR for Xwayland screw xserver. Yes the 2020 message there include the fact that DeepColor was never completed and never merged into the X11 protocol mSparks. The reality is at this stage DeepColor is more likely to merge into Xwayland than bare metal Xserver.

The reality is X11 xserver bare metal does not in fact support HDR. So here is you with another lie trying to make a point mSparks.

its been part of ubuntu X11 since 20.04

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeepColourDepthSupportPlan

____
GNOME 3.36
New lock screen design.New system menu design.New app folder design.
Smoother performance, lower CPU usage for window and overview animations, JavaScript execution, mouse movement and window movement (which also has lower latency now).

10-bit deep colour support.

X11 fractional scaling.
____
full nvidia driver support went gold earlier this year.

afaik there isnt even an RFC for wayland support, and even when there is it will take quite a while to implement, if ever.

[oiaohm]

10-bit deep colour support.

That not the Nvidia deep color extension and not give the applications to do HDR.

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/4399

Yes the problem here where steam client dies because you are on a 30 bit screen or what you would call a 10-bit deep color screen was something the Nvidia deep color extension was aiming to address.

SDR/24bit color /8bit per channel color on a HDR/30+bit color/10-12bit per channel that the bit the Nvidia Deep color extension addressed.

afaik there isnt even an RFC for wayland support, and even when there is it will take quite a while to implement.

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/issues/467

mSparks it is well past the RFC part. There are lot of parts already implemented on the Wayland side that the X11 server bare metal does not have.

Deep Color to the same level of broken that 20.04 did turned on Weston could do that in 2010.

Yes the Nvidia deep color X11 extention would be foundation work to make HDR. Where what Ubuntu 20.04 was talking about is basically a joke that was good for marketing and not that great for end users..

[Quackdoc]

its been part of ubuntu X11 since 20.04

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeepColourDepthSupportPlan

____
GNOME 3.36
New lock screen design.New system menu design.New app folder design.
Smoother performance, lower CPU usage for window and overview animations, JavaScript execution, mouse movement and window movement (which also has lower latency now).

10-bit deep colour support.

X11 fractional scaling.
____
full nvidia driver support went gold earlier this year.

afaik there isnt even an RFC for wayland support, and even when there is it will take quite a while to implement, if ever.

IIRC deepcolor never got transfer support, which is the actual important thing for HDR.

[mSparks]

That not the Nvidia deep color extension and not give the applications to do HDR.

"Ubuntu introduces 10-bit deep colour from 20.04,"
That's 10 bits per channel, 3 channels, = 30 bits
aka HDR10

Still needs applications to support it tho, which is lacking.
X11 gimp already supports it

mSparks it is well past the RFC part.

LOL, no it isn't, wayland devs only test on AMD and they dont even have HDR10 driver support on Linux yet.

[Quackdoc]

"Ubuntu introduces 10-bit deep colour from 20.04,"
That's 10 bits per channel, 3 channels, = 30 bits
aka HDR10

This isn't true at all, that's just 10bit, you also need the transfer to be supported. this is just "10"