Firefox 117 Available With Local Automated Translation Support

[Luke]

Whether Google's behavior is legal or not, no law requires you to connect to their servers or use their products. There terms of service are as incompatable with my terms of service as the GPL v3 is with the Microsoft Windows license. I reject being the product so I block Google, Meta, and all their 3ed party widgets. Naturally I strip Google out of my Firefox installs as well as rejecting Chrome.

There are plenty of sites that are not monetized/offer exclusively free content e.g Mastodon servers, where there is no incentive to track users as no ads are sold. This includes all of the sites I post my video news reports to. If Meta's "threads" ever federates with Mastodon networks I will block that entire domain from interacting with my account so as to keep Meta's mitts off my data. So will a lot of other Mastodon users, and the "Fedipact" is a growing server-level commitment to block Threads. Lots of refugees from Facebook do not want Facebook following them to Mastodon.

This is also doable with apps. Example: Google Maps is paid for with your privacy(you are the product not the customer), while OpenStreetMap and ~Osmand are not. If you use Google Maps, everywhere you go becomes an open book. If you disable Google Maps and Google Play services on phones and use ~Osmand, you are not tracked by your maps as ~Osmand uses predownloaded maps and can be used offline entirely. Another example: Youtube is paid for by selling your data, while archive.org doesn't even retain IP address logs for security reasons.

[schmidtbag]

It is reasonable to assume that sites tracking a user via 3ed party widgets may attempt to read browsing history and certainly will read cookies, clearing history burns the low hanging tracking fruit off of the tree. If is of course necessary to use NoScript or Ublock Origin to deny all sites the ability to load 3ed party code especially the Facebook "Like" button, anything from Google, and anything from any ad network or otherwise unrecognized.

If you're using a 3rd party extension that reads your history and cookies, you deserve to have that tracked. The browser itself otherwise doesn't do that and has no compelling reason to. For most of these companies, they get 99% of what they need simply by whatever data you transmit to the internet.

If you insist on using Gmail and don't want to upload your entire browsing history to Google (excluding those sites w no Google widgets at all), you must not be logged in while doing anything else! Even then, to prevent Google from associating your IP address with your account and de facto logging you back in for tracking purposes, you must both clear cookies (and other history to make evercookies harder) and not allow Google to load anything when not on Gmail or Youtube. I suggest exiling both of those to Torbrowser and putting up with having to restart multiple times to bypass Google blocks on selected Tor exit nodes.

The only way Google would be tracking your browsing history is if you signed into Chrome (which BTW, does not require a Google account) and allowed your browsing history to be synced. Otherwise, they can get a large chunk of your browsing history without having to download anything from your PC, simply through ads and whatever accounts of yours that may be linked to them. I wouldn't be surprised if some sites still sell data to these companies, even if your account isn't linked or if adblock is enabled.
Remember: companies like Google, Amazon, and Facebook don't have to know who you are. They can still roughly figure things out based on your IP address. That's why you can get ads for specific products you definitely did not search for: it's because someone else on your network searched for such things.

Also, why don't you use use Incognito/Private browsing? It's a hell of a lot easier than going through all these other steps.

Also note that Google has been fined before for tracking people with location turned off or otherwise opted out of some form of tracking. I would say the only fully reliable way to keep your name off whatever Google collects is not to have an account, not to use Google, and to block them on all other sites.

No, the fully reliable way to not be tracked is to not use the internet. Just accept that if you want to enjoy it, there is a way for some institution to track you. The fact of the matter is, you (not specifically you) don't have a good reason to concern about this. One of my computers use Chrome, I have my account synced, I don't block all ads, and I use some (not all) of Google's services. I know they (among other institutions) are collecting my data, some of which without my permission - so long as I've done nothing wrong and they they don't interfere with my life, I genuinely don't care.

As for Chrome, even the Washington Post has called it spyware and advised their readers not to use it.

You say that as though this is some sort of revelation. But if we're to play devil's advocate for a moment: most of what Google collects is totally legal, there isn't evidence of that data collection being malicious, and most of the data they collect isn't from Chrome. There is absolutely legitimate spyware going on (like you said about tracking location without permission) but the bulk of the data collected is legal based on Google's TOS.

[Luke]

As for paid content, I do not use it at all-there is not a single purchased file in all of the file systems of all the devices I own unless you count low level firmware shipped with devices

[Luke]

If you create no accounts of any kind, pretty much all you can do is consume some free content and do research. That's not insignificant; for some people, that could be most of the time they spend on the internet. But, everything else you do needs an account or will tie back to you in some other way. Even if you're not signing in with a Google account, there are a lot of sites out there that still have some connection with Google.

*facepalm* Clearing your browser history is local. It does absolutely nothing to stop any over-the-internet data that has been tracked from your user activity. The discussion at hand is about security and access to personal information; the only people who are affected by clearing your browser data are those who have direct access to your computer. If you're that paranoid about friends and family spying on your browser history, you may want to consider getting a less shameful hobby.

It is reasonable to assume that sites tracking a user via 3ed party widgets may attempt to read browsing history and certainly will read cookies, clearing history burns the low hanging tracking fruit off of the tree. If is of course necessary to use NoScript or Ublock Origin to deny all sites the ability to load 3ed party code especially the Facebook "Like" button, anything from Google, and anything from any ad network or otherwise unrecognized.

If you insist on using Gmail and don't want to upload your entire browsing history to Google (excluding those sites w no Google widgets at all), you must not be logged in while doing anything else! Even then, to prevent Google from associating your IP address with your account and de facto logging you back in for tracking purposes, you must both clear cookies (and other history to make evercookies harder) and not allow Google to load anything when not on Gmail or Youtube. I suggest exiling both of those to Torbrowser and putting up with having to restart multiple times to bypass Google blocks on selected Tor exit nodes.

Also note that Google has been fined before for tracking people with location turned off or otherwise opted out of some form of tracking. I would say the only fully reliable way to keep your name off whatever Google collects is not to have an account, not to use Google, and to block them on all other sites.

As for Chrome, even the Washington Post has called it spyware and advised their readers not to use it.

[schmidtbag]

You can do a hell of a lot not only without being logged into anything, but without having a Google, Amazon, or Facebook account at all.

If you create no accounts of any kind, pretty much all you can do is consume some free content and do research. That's not insignificant; for some people, that could be most of the time they spend on the internet. But, everything else you do needs an account or will tie back to you in some other way. Even if you're not signing in with a Google account, there are a lot of sites out there that still have some connection with Google.

If you do have those, you should clear all history before logging into one, do what you need to do while doing nothing else, log out, and clear all history again before doing anything else. Also, Firefox offers containers that can be used to isolate sites like Google and especially Facebook. Note that if you isolate these you cannot of course use them to log into anything else, but that is a bad practice anyway due both to tracking and the consequences of a hijacked account.

*facepalm* Clearing your browser history is local. It does absolutely nothing to stop any over-the-internet data that has been tracked from your user activity. The discussion at hand is about security and access to personal information; the only people who are affected by clearing your browser data are those who have direct access to your computer. If you're that paranoid about friends and family spying on your browser history, you may want to consider getting a less shameful hobby.

[Luke]

That implies you're not logged into anything. I'm curious how much you think you can get done (or would be willing to do) without signing into anything.

If the "threat" (strong word there) is advertising a sub-par product then you deserve what you get for buying impulsively and not doing your research.

I don't, but I understand people need to make a living, and ads aren't inherently evil. It isn't realistic for companies like Google or Amazon to triage the legitimacy of the ads they produce, to an extent anyway. There are all sorts of methods to work around such things.

You can do a hell of a lot not only without being logged into anything, but without having a Google, Amazon, or Facebook account at all. If you do have those, you should clear all history before logging into one, do what you need to do while doing nothing else, log out, and clear all history again before doing anything else. Also, Firefox offers containers that can be used to isolate sites like Google and especially Facebook. Note that if you isolate these you cannot of course use them to log into anything else, but that is a bad practice anyway due both to tracking and the consequences of a hijacked account.

[schmidtbag]

With Ublock Origin in "moderate" mode, it is fairly simple to block connections to Google on a large fraction of non-Google domains. There are exceptions that require it, like Youtube embeds, but most pages don't have those.

That implies you're not logged into anything. I'm curious how much you think you can get done (or would be willing to do) without signing into anything.

Effective ad targeting is a threat to everyone's livelihood. We should be trying to hide as much as possible to stop bad actors like Google, Amazon, and Oracle from misdirecting our cash to low-value products.

If the "threat" (strong word there) is advertising a sub-par product then you deserve what you get for buying impulsively and not doing your research.

If you work in adtech, I hope that when you are old and your mind starts to deteriorate, you are conned out of most of your life savings by a "medicare supplement insurance" provider.

I don't, but I understand people need to make a living, and ads aren't inherently evil. It isn't realistic for companies like Google or Amazon to triage the legitimacy of the ads they produce, to an extent anyway. There are all sorts of methods to work around such things.

[Luke]

Er, wait 4 days?

Wrong: the website PUBLISHING the communiques is under attack. The charges in question are equivalent to prosecuting Youtube because someone posted a video there boasting about one of the fires. Some countries do that, but the US is not supposed to be one of them.

The grand jury is fishing with grenades for something that cannot be caught on hook and line.

[yump]

Never assume the government can find you no matter what your security precautions: if THAT was true, all the posters of arson communiques over the Cop City project in Atlanta would have been caught. Instead, NONE have been caught and nobody has ever (as of 9-1-2023) been charged for one of the fires or for posting one of the communiques. Whatever you think of this project or of the resistance to it, what this proves is that serious computer counter-forensics can defeat a high priority, determined investigation with police and FBI involvement.

Er, wait 4 days?

[yump]

For what it's worth: if you are signed into anything that is tied to Google or are visiting a site that is funded using Google ads, it doesn't matter if you're using FF with local translation: they're still tracking you.

With Ublock Origin in "moderate" mode, it is fairly simple to block connections to Google on a large fraction of non-Google domains. There are exceptions that require it, like Youtube embeds, but most pages don't have those.

your livelihood isn't threatened: they just want to target you with ads you may find relevant; you're nothing more than just a source of cash to them. Unless you have something to hide, I genuinely don't understand why people care so much. If you do have something to hide then shame on you: I hope you get caught.

Effective ad targeting is a threat to everyone's livelihood. We should be trying to hide as much as possible to stop bad actors like Google, Amazon, and Oracle from misdirecting our cash to low-value products.

If you work in adtech, I hope that when you are old and your mind starts to deteriorate, you are conned out of most of your life savings by a "medicare supplement insurance" provider.