Ubuntu 22.10 Switching To PipeWire For Linux Audio Handling

[RealNC]

I switched to PipeWire a couple months ago. Everything works, except QEMU is unable to output any audio when used in virt-manager.

[Alexmitter]

Seems like you didn't read what I wrote. Wayland doesn't work on AMD, Intel and Nvidia when trying to run vision/neuroscience experiments that require precision timing. If it worked fine it would already be the default backend for Psychtoolbox: https://github.com/Psychtoolbox-3/Ps...box-3/pull/765

I would recommend you to try reading as this issue is about running Psychtoolbox on top of X on top of Wayland, not about running Psychtoolbox on top of Wayland. You base your claims on Wayland missing something needed for "precision timing" which is plain wrong. Neither is that a problem nor the issue about that.

For what it seems, Psychtoolbox is directly targeting GLX instead of doing the sane thing and using a platform middleman like SDL2, which is the main reason why it does not already just work fine on Wayland. But who can blame those devs for doing things that were strongly not recommended for 10-15 years now.

[WannaBeOCer]

I would recommend you to try reading as this issue is about running Psychtoolbox on top of X on top of Wayland, not about running Psychtoolbox on top of Wayland. You base your claims on Wayland missing something needed for "precision timing" which is plain wrong. Neither is that a problem nor the issue about that.

For what it seems, Psychtoolbox is directly targeting GLX instead of doing the sane thing and using a platform middleman like SDL2, which is the main reason why it does not already just work fine on Wayland. But who can blame those devs for doing things that were strongly not recommended for 10-15 years now.

You probably didn’t read the prior post which list the missing protocol that is currently a WIP required for precision timing which is why the devs aren’t using a wayland backend.

[lumks]

[...] GNOME seems to try to target very novice users (which should account for 0% of Linux desktop users)[...]

You might have a completely wrong image of linux desktop usage. There are a ton of professional powerusers who

1. Do not want to change a thing on the desktop, including the wallpaper
2. Are pretty limited to what they can change, because of a KIOSK like environment
3. Use the PC as a tool to work, not as reflection of the personality

That's GNOMEs target audience. Thats why you see only gnome as enterprise ready desktop on, well, enterprise distros.

KDE Plasma is a nice desktop to toy around with, I was using it for 12 years and am trying it from time to time. But it just is not a tool I can really work on, as everything is getting in my way and just screams out "Change this, change that, resize this, shrink that, enable this" on top of some shortcomings, like proper SMB support. I don't hate Plasma (or any other desktop for that sake), it's just more work then it's should be.

(And yes, I'm completely aware that GNOMe does have some huge shortcomings too)

[Nth_man]

> Originally posted by Chugworth View Post
> [...] GNOME seems to try to target very novice users (which should account for 0% of Linux desktop users)[...]
> [...]
(And yes, I'm completely aware that GNOMe does have some huge shortcomings too)

> you see only gnome as enterprise ready desktop on, well, enterprise distros.

KDE Plasma, with distributions like Kubuntu, have paid support available, ready for enterprise. It also comes preinstalled (as e.g. Kubuntu) with computers (even laptops) from Tuxedo, Slimbook, etc.

> everything is getting in my way and just screams out "Change this, change that, resize this, shrink that, enable this"

Can you share a screenshot of everything getting in your way and screaming out "Change this, change that, resize this, shrink that, enable this"?

> proper SMB support. I don't hate Plasma (or any other desktop for that sake), it's just more work then it's should be.

Would you share a bug about that proper SMB support? It works well for me and I'm curious.

[Nth_man]

> Meanwhile KDE Spectacle offering to save screenshots as .cur or .ico files, but not .webp (Ubuntu 22.04)!

> Both sides work hard to keep the Linux desktop share at 1%.

As it was written there: anyone can try it in Kubuntu 22.04 (and 20.04) and see that KDE Spectacle also offers saving screenshots as .webp

[royce]

Yeah, you'd think that most Linux users would want the more feature-packed and customizable software, which is KDE. GNOME seems to try to target very novice users (which should account for 0% of Linux desktop users), and it does so with a desktop environment that would be unfamiliar to them.

You'd think wrong. You must be confusing your personal preferences with absolute facts.

[Mez']

You can minimise windows but you must enable the maximise/minimise buttons (it's in the appearance settings or in GNOME Tweak, I don't remember). Yes it's silly but you do it once and then it's problem solved.

Fortunately, you can do it indeed.
The problem with Gnome's overview and vanilla inability to minimize windows is when you have 5-6 instances running of an app. In the overview, it takes forever to distinguish which is what, and then you get all the inactive windows behind your active window, all sized differently and often with similar colors. It is confusion hell to resize or move your window. It happens to me many many times that I pick the wrong one and lose focus, then it is another hell to find the wanted window again as it's entirely behind others.

And it gets even worse when you have several instances for several apps. Smaller window thumbnails in the overview, and more to pick from. I'm talking about a very normal workflow after a couple hours on your computer (and even more if working). To add to the misery, Nautilus can't do dual pane since v3, more windows to pick from, more confusion.

And it's why Unity or the Dash-to-dock extension (or Dash-to-panel for some) or the Icon Task List in Budgie make (made) for a much more modern paradigm. It's way way faster to just scroll a couple times on the dock's icon until you get the expected window.

[Mez']

GNOME is really nice to the eyes for me. IMO, it's the most beautiful desktop UI out there. And GNOME Circle apps are very good.

However, it has 2 major issues:

1. It's impossible to adjust mouse wheel scrolling speed in Wayland. However, the team is already in the process of implementing this feature.
2. The file chooser doesn't have a thumbnail mode, thus the worst file chooser out there because it's extremely hard for the users to choose the right file, especially when choosing a picture. This issue has been reported 18 years ago.

The 2 issues above are not present in KDE... But I won't be using KDE anytime soon because I just don't like every aspect of the UI. It's not like they're too complicated to use, but the design just look ancient in my eyes. I am fine with a lot of options. In fact, I like options (when they're presenting themselves properly). I can't find something like GNOME Circle in KDE land. Only a few apps has beautiful UI.

I came from Windows 11 to Fedora 36 without any regret.

Adwaita is objectively one of the most inconsistent and ugly theme out there. So, you'd have to be more specific when you use the word "beautiful".

Then, Gnome Circle apps are just the usual Gnome NIH (their specialty) and for the most part entirely useless because a. there are a crapload of much better, well known, well featured apps already in place and b. they have no features (so you need a. anyway anytime you need to do actual stuff).
I know they are not the same devs as Gnome core devs, but it's such a waste of effort and resources when Gnome is so desperately in need of resources to implement and maintain basic features required by half of its users.
This effort should go to internalizing the most popular extensions and make a pareto effect of 20% most popular extensions for 80% happier Gnome users (than the current 10-20%). It would be cleaner than the hacks people have to resort to (extensions) to bring Gnome into a modern paradigm.

[polarathene]

Yes, the workflow in GNOME requires a bit of getting used to, and it starts making sense once you're familiar with it.

You're supposed to launch apps in their own workspaces. From the overview you can either drag-and-drop app icons into different workspaces, or if you prefer keyboard-based workflows, use Ctrl+Alt+Right/Left to switch workspaces and type app names in the overview. Window management then happens through workspaces, either from the overview, keyboard shortcuts, or touchpad gestures (Wayland only).
That's why in the default experience, there's no minimize buttons, and no panel to restore minimized apps from.

I'm personally too used to this workflow that I have a bad time when forced to use Windows occasionally, with muscle memory getting in the way.

As I haven't tried using Gnome extensively, I don't know how common it is when using apps like Unigine Heaven which open a launcher window. This is the one I wanted to minimize, so launching it on a different workspace doesn't change much other than require more fiddling around? That then launches the actual app in another window. Not sure what toolkit it uses for UI, so perhaps that's part of the issue.

Personally, if the window has a decoration for the close interaction, and there is ample free space available beside it (as is the case), there is no realistic reason not to have a minimize button there beyond aesthetic preference? KDE Plasma makes this easy in settings to adjust order or remove the minimize button if you don't want it. I found it odd that you had to know about Gnome Tweaks and grab that from the Software app to make such a change.

For now I'm too stuck in my ways and will keep a minimize button around while I can 😅